Has anyone hit anything with an AIM-54 yet ?

[Extranajero]

I am getting no luck whatsoever with the AIM-54 - I'm firing at about 30nm versus head on fighter targets and while the TID ( or whatever the hell it's called ) repeater in the front seat shows time to go and I keep the nose on the target until the missile goes active - no hits.

 

It'll probably be something I am doing wrong, but I'm not sure what.

[shagrat]

Do you activate Missile preparation, before attacking something?

below the HUD "MSL PREP" switch, wait 4 Minutes to initiate and align the AIM-54 / AIM-7 to the radar frequencies etc.

[Extranajero]

Do you activate Missile preparation, before attacking something?

below the HUD "MSL PREP" switch, wait 4 Minutes to initiate and align the AIM-54 / AIM-7 to the radar frequencies etc.

 

Yep, it's all warmed up and ready to chomp on a MiG. I activate both heat and radar missiles before takeoff.

 

( I know the Sidewinder has a limited coolant supply but I also know I'll be shot down long before it runs out :D )

[umkhunto]

https://streamable.com/9ba2a

 

 

https://streamable.com/83kp1

[Tango3B]

Yep, it's all warmed up and ready to chomp on a MiG. I activate both heat and radar missiles before takeoff.

 

( I know the Sidewinder has a limited coolant supply but I also know I'll be shot down long before it runs out :D )

 

 

 

Do you fly singleplayer or multiplayer? If you fly multiplayer you will find many guys that fly very low and have developped a certain skill how and when to beam/notch an incoming AIM-54. Therefore these guys might be able to evade a good amount of your missiles if they use terrain and geometry to their advantage. In this case it is not really your "fault". A proper solution to your problem might be to shoot at these guys over flat terrain that has little cover to hide behind and to position yourself accordingly. I do not know how experienced you are with BVR tactics, however so I hope that helps.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Tango3B

[Spiceman]

The Phoenix is a bit borked at the moment... it lofts for too long, then executes a hard turn, dumps all its energy, then glides down from behind the enemy. There is a fix that should be in the next update whenever it comes out.

[Karon]

It'll probably be something I am doing wrong, but I'm not sure what.

Should we try to guess or are you going to tell us what you do, step by step?

 

 

I fly only as RIO and I haven't had too many issues. The trick is setting up the engagement correctly in order to deal with the WCS' morbit love for the bugged TWS Auto and to prevent or counter notching. Even multiple kills are quite easily achievable, especially vs AI. I made a video about notching a week ago and my last scenario was 3 MiG-23 vs RIO: two splashed with phoenixes (altough I haven't adjusted the antenna enough and lost a phoenix for that reason), the last one with an AIM-7.

Humans can be a problem because as soon as they see you slowing down and craking they assume you FOXed and go defensive. Humans use (or should use) terrain masking much better and the same goes for energy management and weapons. So, end of the day, it all depends on the individual skill and knowledge of the pilots.

 

 

 

PS: I have way many more issues finding decent F-14 pilots actually..

[Extranajero]

Do you fly singleplayer or multiplayer?

 

Both, but not multiplayer PvP as yet, I'm only engaging AI flown aircraft.

 

The Phoenix is a bit borked at the moment... it lofts for too long, then executes a hard turn, dumps all its energy, then glides down from behind the enemy. There is a fix that should be in the next update whenever it comes out.

 

I did wonder if it was the missiles behaviour but I never put anything down to being a modules fault unless I know for sure there's a bug.

Absolutely outstanding YouTube tutorials by the way, I'm a subscriber :)

[Extranajero]

The trick is setting up the engagement correctly in order to deal with the WCS' morbit love for the bugged TWS Auto and to prevent or counter notching.

 

PS: I have way many more issues finding decent F-14 pilots actually..

 

I didn't know TWS Auto was knackered....or what in particular is wrong with it.

 

Despite Spicemans best YouTube tutorial efforts I'm not all that familiar with the AWG-9. Radar is very bloody complicated. The only other modern A2A module I have is the Mirage and I usually load 4 heat seekers with that and hope I survive to the merge.

 

Mostly I'm flying multiplayer so I don't have access to the Tomcats rear seat for some reason - so I just wait until 30 miles ( because it seems a nice round number ) and then shoot at whatever Jester has bugged for me. Then I run away :D

I did try getting him to STT targets but the missile still doesn't hit.

I've got all the front office switchology correct, what happens back there is down to him :D

[stuart666]

The Phoenix is a bit borked at the moment... it lofts for too long, then executes a hard turn, dumps all its energy, then glides down from behind the enemy. There is a fix that should be in the next update whenever it comes out.

 

 

That explains a lot. I saw it perform that exact behavior in a recent offline mission. I wondered what it thought it was doing.

 

 

On the positive side, it works fantastically in ACM mode. Its like a radar homing sidewinder with a nuclear warhead. :D

[Biggus]

I knocked down a Foxhound on Hoggit GAW two nights ago in TWS at 72nm. Seems okay to me.

[Karon]

Quick advice: read the manual thoroughly before watching videos. They always miss most of the useful little details that really make the difference. Videos can be useful sometimes to see the bigger picture, but there's little point in a picture full of gaps.

 

STT is like yelling at the target that you are about to engage it. Like, yelling INCREDIBLY LOUD :)

I use it scare human pilots off or to lure them into thinking that I'm Jester and not a human RIO. Which means that I lock them, push TWS so they think I lost them and they turn hot on us and fire from that mode. When the AIM-54 goes active it's usually too late for them. It has worked quite a few times already.

 

The only solution I see for you is finding a human RIO. Even a newbie one works better than Jester in BVR, due to the status of the TWS Auto. Alternatively learn to use the current TWS as sort-of boresight mode. Check the manual to learn its limitations.

[Coxy_99]

20nm bye bye

[lahsoldier]

I didn't know TWS Auto was knackered....or what in particular is wrong with it.

 

Despite Spicemans best YouTube tutorial efforts I'm not all that familiar with the AWG-9. Radar is very bloody complicated. The only other modern A2A module I have is the Mirage and I usually load 4 heat seekers with that and hope I survive to the merge.

 

Mostly I'm flying multiplayer so I don't have access to the Tomcats rear seat for some reason - so I just wait until 30 miles ( because it seems a nice round number ) and then shoot at whatever Jester has bugged for me. Then I run away :D

I did try getting him to STT targets but the missile still doesn't hit.

I've got all the front office switchology correct, what happens back there is down to him :D

 

One thing to remember is if you use 54s with Jester, he will use TWS at that range. You can tell it by the radar showing a priority of the targets and the countdown once you launch. Once you launch you MUST keep the target in the radar cone until the missile goes active (around 10 miles to target) There is suppose to be an indication that has happened but I think its not modeled yet. If your firing and then turning, your missiles will miss period as they need the radar for guidance. Its not a fire and forget weapon in this case.

 

Another thing is the AI cheat... If you watch a trackview of them when your firing at 40 miles, the instant you launch I have seen AI dump chaff and begin to evade immediately. Prior to that Hot and level. I think I have good eyesight but even I cant see a missile launch at 40 miles. I have done both pilot and RIO and have taken down 4 Mig 29s in one salvo in practice missions several times (though 2-3 is more a norm). Learn the good and that bad of both the radar and the weapon and use it in its proper envelope and your hits will go up dramatically.

[Airhunter]

20-15nm for a good PK shot.

[Eldur]

20nm bye bye

 

 

This ^^

 

 

Against AI at least it's extremely effective

[Voyager]

[...]

 

 

PS: I have way many more issues finding decent F-14 pilots actually..

 

At the hazard of derailing, in your opinion, what are the key factors that make an F-14 pilot decent?

[Extranajero]

Derail away, I've got enough answers to think about now :)

[Spiceman]

Absolutely outstanding YouTube tutorials by the way, I'm a subscriber :)

 

Thanks! New one coming out soon...

 

20nm bye bye

 

Yes... closer in helps alleviate that wacky loft behavior.

 

I think everyone will be pleased with the Phoenix fix when it comes out. Definitely works as intended and the Tomcat will have its claws back.

[Karon]

At the hazard of derailing, in your opinion, what are the key factors that make an F-14 pilot decent?

I am working of an acticle about that for my site, unfortunately I'm about to fly abroad and I won't finish it before I'm back.

So, short version:

I've been killed in the F-14 by the vast majority of my pilots at least once. Usually due to the lack of use of pedals when pulling hard resulting in blackouts or structural damage because people are not used to fly non-FBW much apparently. I come from the old Il2 and the FW so I have the opposite problem and not compensating with pedals even in a FBW aircraft feels very weird. Mistakes happens of course, no big deal but if it is the first time you fly a '14, tell your RIO so he can give you some suggestions.

Random banking and pulling. Most pilots forget that there's someone behind them working on a radar. If you bank or pull hard without saying nothing you mess up the work of the guy behind you. I've lost locks and SA so many times due to that..

RIO blackout similar to the previous, why on earth you have to pull 12G just to turn 90 deg left if the closest threat is 500nm away?! ATM the RIO blacks-out way before the pilot so push a millions Gs if it's not necessary.

TWS. TWS Auto doesn't work, you should know that, and the RIO needs to have the target almost boresighted so when the WCS takes controls it doesn't lose the missile (only then you can push TWS Manual and crank). Anyway if the RIO ask you to stay in certain parameters in order to maintain a lock and fire stay there. Still, many random pilots don't bother and keep turning and manoeuvring.

FENCE IN & basic stuff. I call something such as a FENCE IN, the pilot ACKs and then forgets stuff such as MSL PREP. If you are not sure about something, speak with your RIO, it's better than bail an easy kill because your missiles are not ready. Similar to that, it's happened quite often with wings in bomb mode, or the DLC not even assigned to a button. You are part of a team so ask your RIO if you are not sure about something.

"Stealing" the radar. This is absolutely the worst one. When you push ACM or other modes from the pilot seat the RIO loses control over the radar and when it comes back, it's often messed up and some parameters are changed. This means losing SA, time and even locks, so don't do it. Speak clearly if you need to push ACM.

 

So, especially if you fly with random RIOs or pilots, remember you are part of a team. Speak with the other guy and work together!

[Extranajero]

I am working of an acticle about that for my site, unfortunately I'm about to fly abroad and I won't finish it before I'm back.

 

Very interesting site. I've just ordered a couple of Arduino Leonardo's to interface some real aircraft hardware to DCS.

[Karon]

Thanks. Arduino is an incredibly simple yet powerful platform. I can't understand why people keeps buiying weird controllers that cost hundred of £ just to have a dozen buttons more when with 30£ you can build a controller with 100 functions.

Anyway, if you are building stuff using real life components you may want to check DCS-BIOS. I use HID usually because it's more flexible but integrating stuff such as gauges cannot really be done with that standard.

[Voyager]

I am working of an acticle about that for my site, unfortunately I'm about to fly abroad and I won't finish it before I'm back.

So, short version:

[...]

Random banking and pulling. Most pilots forget that there's someone behind them working on a radar. If you bank or pull hard without saying nothing you mess up the work of the guy behind you. I've lost locks and SA so many times due to that..

RIO blackout similar to the previous, why on earth you have to pull 12G just to turn 90 deg left if the closest threat is 500nm away?! ATM the RIO blacks-out way before the pilot so push a millions Gs if it's not necessary.

TWS. TWS Auto doesn't work, you should know that, and the RIO needs to have the target almost boresighted so when the WCS takes controls it doesn't lose the missile (only then you can push TWS Manual and crank). Anyway if the RIO ask you to stay in certain parameters in order to maintain a lock and fire stay there. Still, many random pilots don't bother and keep turning and manoeuvring.

FENCE IN & basic stuff. I call something such as a FENCE IN, the pilot ACKs and then forgets stuff such as MSL PREP. If you are not sure about something, speak with your RIO, it's better than bail an easy kill because your missiles are not ready. Similar to that, it's happened quite often with wings in bomb mode, or the DLC not even assigned to a button.

[...]

 

So, especially if you fly with random RIOs or pilots, remember you are part of a team. Speak with the other guy and work together!

 

On the bank and turn, how does one usually plan MP flights with a human pilot? I'm wondering it that drives the unexpected turns?

 

On blackouts, what is the RIO g limit? I'm trying to keep specific g-limits to keep from toppelling the INS. Did not know the RIO had separate limits.

 

Finally was there an effect on the back seater operation from DLC and bomb mode operation? Or were you just referring to people planting on landings/pulling then wings off?

[Karon]

1. I usually create a small flightplan depending on what the pilot wants to do. For instance, I set homebase (usually a divert AF), and at least 2 waypoints. If we are doing A/G one is the target area (so I can slave the LANTIRN there) and the second can be an IP or another reference. If we are A/A I set the waypoints to draw sort of boundaries of the friendly area. You can see that in all my streams.

The unexpected turns come from a variety of reasons. For instance, totally unnecessary overcorrection (like, really, why pulling 9G because you want to check 45deg left..). I guess is that many pilots are not used to non-FBW. Others are not used to the lack of info provided by the HUD and forget to check the instruments.

 

2. Dunno di G limit of the RIO, there's a thread about it in the Bugs section of this forum. It's not too low btw, you can still dogfight very well without having the RIO going black and without preventing you to push to the limits.

 

3. It was a general. Some people forget to adjust the wings when bombing, some others have no clue about what I'm talink about when I ask them if they want control over Chaffs of Flares (as I mentioned, the DLC).

Again, it's not a problem of being new to the F-14, I am as it is everyone who hasn't flown the real thing, more the lack of understanding that the F-14 has a crew of 2 and neither pilot or RIO can fly the aircraft alone.

 

Let me know if you want to fly together sometimes (as long as the timezone is compatible), I'm often on GAW, for instance.

[umkhunto]

With Karon in the RIO seat, had a bit of good night. Here's one of the highlights to answer the OP's question. It makes quite a difference when you have a human doing the black magic stuff in the back.

 

https://streamable.com/gunt3