There is no update to Hornet

[Flia]

I think thats a big shame. I have nothig against FW190 but Hornet is the Flagship of DCS a it deserve much bigger atention from the ED then old 190. I just dont understant why Hornet is less imortant module now.

[CAPT_Kirkpatrick]

It is beginning to look like it will be 4 weeks. No word on today's update......silence from the devs on patch day is never a good sign which has been the trend over the last month, and then we get the late in the day communication update delayed yet another week. May be in jeopardy for this week as well.

 

9line commented on the official discord about some bug getting caught late last night.

 

He said they had to do a full rebuild(compile) of the files to get it set for an update but has no solid idea on how long it will take to fix/build

[Sheriff BurneR]

I dont care about FW190, and F16 and other early access. Hornet will be priorytet to finish! It was my last time when i buy something in early access after Hornet.

[diamond22]

I dont care about FW190, and F16 and other early access. Hornet will be priorytet to finish! It was my last time when i buy something in early access after Hornet.

 

+1

[Oban]

I wish the people who defend ED so vigorously would understand that paying customers have the right to complain about a product that's far from complete, and they see other projects being pushed towards early access too.

 

It is their right to complain, not everyone purchased the module in early access, and not everyone uses OB, but they share a disappointment to see several delays on a module already purchased whilst ED pushes early access sales on their newer modules.

 

I too would rather see a full team working to complete the F18 before moving onto the F16.. "How do you eat an elephant? "

 

Slowly, and a little bit at a time, ED are moving from elephant to elephant, as are their paying customers, and spudknocker also raised this "early access syndrome" and received mixed reactions to it.

 

Bottom line, defend ED if you must, but the paying customer has a right to complain about a product they feel is not what's being advertised, or they feel the resources have been redirected to that other elephant.

[Scofflaw]

It is their right to complain, not everyone purchased the module in early access

 

Going to have to disagree with you on that one.

[Nagilem]

@oban - Not knocking what you're saying, but what's the alternative? No F18 hornet for the past year waiting for a fully capable product to come to market?

 

 

I get the frustration, but please don't overlook that we have an active development community working to bring this thing home. I know we all want it, and want it now, but I think to not have the hornet this past year would not have been fun AT ALL.

 

 

I do agree that more aircraft rather than finishing what is there is a gamble that may not pay off for ED. I think it all lynch pins on how well these next few rollout cycles go.

 

The optimist thinks that even with the setbacks today, we will still see good stuff in the coming week or two.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Nagilem

[Oban]

Going to have to disagree with you on that one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

The F/A-18C Hornet is twin engine, supersonic fighter that is flown by a single pilot in a "glass cockpit". It combines extreme maneuverability , a deadly arsenal of weapons, and the ability to operate from an aircraft carrier. Operated by several nations, this multi-role fighter has been instrumental in conflicts from 1986 to today.

The Hornet is equipped with a large suite of sensors that includes a radar, targeting pod, and a helmet mounted sight. In addition to its internal 20mm cannon, the Hornet can be armed with a large assortment of unguided bombs and rockets, laser and GPS-guided bombs, air-to-surface missiles of all sorts, and both radar and infrared-guided air-to-air missiles. This results in amazing gameplay potential with this single aircraft.

The Hornet is also known for its extreme, slow-speed maneuverability in a dogfight. We have gone to great lengths to model the flight aerodynamics and fly-by-wire flight control system of the Hornet to allow you to experience the real feeling of power and extreme capabilities this aircraft has to offer. Although incredibly deadly, the Hornet is also a very easy aircraft to fly.

Being an aircraft carrier capable aircraft, our Hornet also comes with the most detailed aircraft carrier ever created for a PC game. Catapult from the "boat", strike a large assortment of targets that only DCS World can offer, then "call the ball" and land on the carrier. DCS: F/A-18C Hornet in DCS World provides the most rich and authentic digital combat aviation you will ever experience!

Key Features of DCS: F/A-18C Hornet:

 

• Professional Flight Model (PFM) and authentic Flight Control System (FCS). Experience the thrill of flying this supersonic warbird.
  
• Includes a new, highly-detailed USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier with fully operational steam catapults, arrestor wires, "meat ball" landing system, TACAN navigation, jet blast deflectors, radar antennas, defense systems, and lights.
  
• The most realistic model of the F/A-18C imaginable, down to each bolt and flake of paint, animated controls surfaces, lights, damage model, and landing gear.
  
• Detailed simulation of the Hornet's many sub-systems like engines, fuel, electrical, hydraulic, radios, lighting, emergency, and many, many more. Although features like "auto start" are available, the sense of accomplishment cannot be overstated after learning to operate this state-of-the-art machine.
  
• Inertia and GPS navigation systems with moving map display allow you multiple ways to find your target and get you back to "mother".
  
• Dozens of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and sensors. From simple rockets to high-tech GPS and laser-guided bombs, experience what only Hornet pilots have experienced ‘til now.
  
• A highly realistic and exhaustively researched cockpit that is mouse interactive with 6 degrees of freedom. Interact with the cockpit by pressing buttons and moving switches. You will feel like part of the aircraft with our Advanced Systems Modeling (ASM).
  
• Authentic Hornet sounds provided with the assistance of Boeing, the Hornet's manufacturer.
  
• New effects have been developed for our Hornet like leading edge extension vapor, over-wing vapor, rain on canopy, and new explosions.
  
• Virtual Reality support. Take advantage of the latest VR technologies to immerse yourself in the simulation. Other than the G's, you will feel like you are there!
  
• Multiple liveries for the US Navy, US Marine Corps, Canada, Australia, Spain, Switzerland, Finland, and many more.
   
   
   
  Where does it state in that sales pitch that all of these will be brought to you over a period of time?
   
  Early access is over, the module has been available for Stable Branch for several months now.
   
  The bold part highlighted for you, dozens of air to air and air to ground weapons and sensors..that are NOT complete.
   
  I get the eagerness to get hands on early access, I did too, I have both stable and Open branches, I'm reasonably happy with the product, however I expected it to be more or less in a complete state before ED moved onto the next products and the cycle begins all over again.
   
  Again, as a paying customer, like thousands of others, I should have a right to express an opinion that doesn't vibe with ED, or their defenders. ;)
  

[falcon_120]

About the DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

The F/A-18C Hornet is twin engine, supersonic fighter that is flown by a single pilot in a "glass cockpit". It combines extreme maneuverability , a deadly arsenal of weapons, and the ability to operate from an aircraft carrier. Operated by several nations, this multi-role fighter has been instrumental in conflicts from 1986 to today.

The Hornet is equipped with a large suite of sensors that includes a radar, targeting pod, and a helmet mounted sight. In addition to its internal 20mm cannon, the Hornet can be armed with a large assortment of unguided bombs and rockets, laser and GPS-guided bombs, air-to-surface missiles of all sorts, and both radar and infrared-guided air-to-air missiles. This results in amazing gameplay potential with this single aircraft.

The Hornet is also known for its extreme, slow-speed maneuverability in a dogfight. We have gone to great lengths to model the flight aerodynamics and fly-by-wire flight control system of the Hornet to allow you to experience the real feeling of power and extreme capabilities this aircraft has to offer. Although incredibly deadly, the Hornet is also a very easy aircraft to fly.

Being an aircraft carrier capable aircraft, our Hornet also comes with the most detailed aircraft carrier ever created for a PC game. Catapult from the "boat", strike a large assortment of targets that only DCS World can offer, then "call the ball" and land on the carrier. DCS: F/A-18C Hornet in DCS World provides the most rich and authentic digital combat aviation you will ever experience!

Key Features of DCS: F/A-18C Hornet:

 

• Professional Flight Model (PFM) and authentic Flight Control System (FCS). Experience the thrill of flying this supersonic warbird.
  
• Includes a new, highly-detailed USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier with fully operational steam catapults, arrestor wires, "meat ball" landing system, TACAN navigation, jet blast deflectors, radar antennas, defense systems, and lights.
  
• The most realistic model of the F/A-18C imaginable, down to each bolt and flake of paint, animated controls surfaces, lights, damage model, and landing gear.
  
• Detailed simulation of the Hornet's many sub-systems like engines, fuel, electrical, hydraulic, radios, lighting, emergency, and many, many more. Although features like "auto start" are available, the sense of accomplishment cannot be overstated after learning to operate this state-of-the-art machine.
  
• Inertia and GPS navigation systems with moving map display allow you multiple ways to find your target and get you back to "mother".
  
• Dozens of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons and sensors. From simple rockets to high-tech GPS and laser-guided bombs, experience what only Hornet pilots have experienced ‘til now.
  
• A highly realistic and exhaustively researched cockpit that is mouse interactive with 6 degrees of freedom. Interact with the cockpit by pressing buttons and moving switches. You will feel like part of the aircraft with our Advanced Systems Modeling (ASM).
  
• Authentic Hornet sounds provided with the assistance of Boeing, the Hornet's manufacturer.
  
• New effects have been developed for our Hornet like leading edge extension vapor, over-wing vapor, rain on canopy, and new explosions.
  
• Virtual Reality support. Take advantage of the latest VR technologies to immerse yourself in the simulation. Other than the G's, you will feel like you are there!
  
• Multiple liveries for the US Navy, US Marine Corps, Canada, Australia, Spain, Switzerland, Finland, and many more.
   
   
   
  Where does it state in that sales pitch that all of these will be brought to you over a period of time?
   
  Early access is over, the module has been available for Stable Branch for several months now.
   
  The bold part highlighted for you, dozens of air to air and air to ground weapons and sensors..that are NOT complete.
   
  I get the eagerness to get hands on early access, I did too, I have both stable and Open branches, I'm reasonably happy with the product, however I expected it to be more or less in a complete state before ED moved onto the next products and the cycle begins all over again.
   
  Again, as a paying customer, like thousands of others, I should have a right to express an opinion that doesn't vibe with ED, or their defenders. ;)
  

 

From the ED store

[falcon_120]

About the DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

 

 

Early access is over, the module has been available for Stable Branch for several months now.

 

 

 

You have that very wrong. A module is the stable branch does not mean is out of Early Access, it only means that the version does not contain game breaking bugs (unplayable), so you have something that has been tested in the OB before and deemed as "good enough". As you see this has nothing to do with having a complete module and out of EA, 2 different concepts, just pointing that out.

[Oban]

@oban - Not knocking what you're saying, but what's the alternative? No F18 hornet for the past year waiting for a fully capable product to come to market?

 

 

I get the frustration, but please don't overlook that we have an active development community working to bring this thing home. I know we all want it, and want it now, but I think to not have the hornet this past year would not have been fun AT ALL.

 

 

I do agree that more aircraft rather than finishing what is there is a gamble that may not pay off for ED. I think it all lynch pins on how well these next few rollout cycles go.

 

The optimist thinks that even with the setbacks today, we will still see good stuff in the coming week or two.

 

There are not many manufacturers who put out incomplete products other than the gaming industry, early access is beta testing on a massive scale, that's perfectly fine, guinea pigs en masse :lol:

 

However, where I feel ED are letting their consumers down is that instead of concentrating on a single product, with a full team of programmers, and getting that product to a "completed" stage within a realistic time frame, instead, they are spreading that team into new products, and the same repeat and rinse will be there again, that to me is symptoms of corporate greed, and wanting to eat bits out of every elephant that comes into view.

 

I sympathise with the other guys frustrations, that's all,it's not a taboo thing to do, especially if you're not flush with cash!

 

 

Bohemia Interactive did the same thing, had a massive team, pushed out a product that 5 years later still has serious issues with their AI, and now they no longer have anyone there to code the AI anymore, so it's left to the smart consumers to create workable addons..

 

 

I'm quite happy with ED mostly, I won't knock someone who's frustrated after things have been said publicly and later retracted by ED, it doesn't make for good PR ;)

[Oban]

You have that very wrong. A module is the stable branch does not mean is out of Early Access, it only means that the version does not contain game breaking bugs (unplayable), so you have something that has been tested in the OB before and deemed as "good enough". As you see this has nothing to do with having a complete module and out of EA, 2 different concepts, just pointing that out.

 

I stand corrected, thank you.. as I said, personally I'm not overly pissed off, I just feel they should concentrate on that one product, before going down early access again, and face the same issues etc.

[Harlikwin]

I stand corrected, thank you.. as I said, personally I'm not overly pissed off, I just feel they should concentrate on that one product, before going down early access again, and face the same issues etc.

 

Yeah, EA on most modules is at least 1-2 years. And the hornet EA has been quite good compared to most EA modules. I mean no update till friday most likely now but its like 2 more days :lol:

[Nagilem]

Honestly, I think the lack of communication is less deception and more them trying so hard not to disappoint the community with the 'give the devs another hour' mentality - one hour rolls to two then rolls to a day... so easy to get caught up in that cycle. Sadly, coding and bug fixing aren't always predictable activities.

 

For all of their flaws, ED seems genuinely to care about their product. They participate here regularly, generally listen to the community, and try to put out quality updates.

[BoneDust]

I wish the people who defend ED so vigorously would understand that paying customers have the right to complain about a product that's far from complete, and they see other projects being pushed towards early access too.

 

It is their right to complain, not everyone purchased the module in early access, and not everyone uses OB, but they share a disappointment to see several delays on a module already purchased whilst ED pushes early access sales on their newer modules.

 

I too would rather see a full team working to complete the F18 before moving onto the F16.. "How do you eat an elephant? "

 

Slowly, and a little bit at a time, ED are moving from elephant to elephant, as are their paying customers, and spudknocker also raised this "early access syndrome" and received mixed reactions to it.

 

Bottom line, defend ED if you must, but the paying customer has a right to complain about a product they feel is not what's being advertised, or they feel the resources have been redirected to that other elephant.

 

Well stated! :thumbup:

 

I pre-purchased the F16 and regret doing it. Most on our wing did not pre-purchase this time because of the slow development on the hornet. I understand they need to have a constant revenue stream but shifting people to test their latest product A-8 at the expense of a product people have paid for is ethically wrong.

Edited June 5, 2019 by BoneDust

[Harlikwin]

Honestly, I think the lack of communication is less deception and more them trying so hard not to disappoint the community with the 'give the devs another hour' mentality - one hour rolls to two then rolls to a day... so easy to get caught up in that cycle. Sadly, coding and bug fixing aren't always predictable activities.

 

For all of their flaws, ED seems genuinely to care about their product. They participate here regularly, generally listen to the community, and try to put out quality updates.

 

Yup this.

[Nagilem]

Why do so many assume every developer resource can all do the same thing equally well?

 

A plumber is not an electrician is not a foundation concrete layer is not a roofer....

 

Some devs are needed early on in development for certain types of activities, while others come later because of their skills and experience. From everything I have seen in responses from Wags and 9line, the team they have on the hornet today has been engaged and will continue to be so until the EA period is done.

 

Meanwhile, those who finished their parts, and are adding NO VALUE to the F18 module, have moved to other endeavors.

[NineLine]

Well stated! :thumbup:

 

I pre-purchased the F16 and regret doing it. Most on our wing did not pre-purchase this time because of the slow development on the hornet. I understand they need to have a constant revenue stream but shifting people to test their latest product A-8 at the expense of a product people have paid for is ethically wrong.

 

No Hornet development team members were switched to the A-8, simply testing focus was switched to the A-8 for the week runup to release. The delay in Hornet Features has 0.0 to do with the Viper development.

Edited June 5, 2019 by NineLine

[NineLine]

Hornet development has slowed down because the stuff left to develop is very complex and takes more time and testing. (person who I replied to deleted their comment, but I'll leave this here anyways :) )

[Sheriff BurneR]

5 years to release early access Hornet, another 5 years to add new features and fix them. What next? Preorder for finish?

[Hog_No32]

However, where I feel ED are letting their consumers down is that instead of concentrating on a single product, with a full team of programmers, [...]

 

Would you also recommend that Boeing should now stop the entire development of the 777X (or 777-8/9) or even their entire production to get the MAX fixed?

 

DCS is not a Hornet simulator and there are other customers who are eager to receive updates of their modules as well (...not only Hornet guys pay money to ED) or are awaiting new modules? Flagship or not, the „do one thing at a time until it is finished“ mantra does not fly well in the software business. Also not outside of the gaming world. Not if you want to run a sustainable business with a broad customer base.

 

I‘m not saying ED does everything well, clearly communication is a bit of an issue every now and then. But I do recognize they received the message a while ago that users in general appreciate a more open and transparent communication on development stati and activities. Hornet mini-updates come to my mind where we sometimes even got to know how many devs are working on which specific topics and in what priority. That is way beyond what most software companies will tell you.

[NineLine]

5 years to release early access Hornet, another 5 years to add new features and fix them. What next? Preorder for finish?

 

It wasn't 5 years to release EA, it wasn't 5 years to add new features, what nonsense are you talking about?

[M2K]

Well, it's all about finding the right balance between "stable enough" and "it's OB, so we don't care about releasing with issues breaking it".

I do prefer the first option and it looks like ED too. OB is not an alpha release or a developer edition.

 

Delaying a release is the best option when the benefit/risk ratio is low...

I can live with it :)

[Jabara]

Guys,

I completely don't understand this crying.

You do not like? Don't pay before releasing finished product or pay and be patient.

Simple :)

 

BTW: This is my first post on this forum

I greet everyone,

Jabara

[Nagilem]

@Jabara - Welcome!