pepin1234 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Today I was amazed when I wanted to perform a right turn with some Gs and the Mig-29S literally broke apart. As I suspected the enemy missile never get close enough to hit me and this incident happen right at the moment I perform the turn I decided review the Track. AND yes the airframe did brake apart with the result of killing myself. All right but the very weird is my payload was 4 R-73 and 2 R-27ER pulling 7,6 Gs. If you want replicate this and see... For me this is really weird because I lot of time I have seen F-15 turning really hard with fuel tanks and now see this in Mig-29 with a payload like that amazed me a lot. Edited July 20, 2019 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Fuel level? Limiter on? Will try Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceandar Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I'm aware Russian fighters kinda like "handle with care" jets but 7 G seems too low for breaking apart. Dunno I might be wrong. No need to compare with the mighty Eagle, we've been there before. Just wait untill Tharos chime in lol j/k... Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I always thought the MiG-29 like the Sukhoi is limited to 7G at certain speeds Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhunter Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Dont pull too hard while supersonic. The 29 has no g limiter. What you pull is what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy_99 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Try the 33 then its like paper plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarres Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 VVS tests of the 9-12/9-13 states a maximum of +7/-2g with a standard 2xR27R and 2xR60 without ventral fuel tank around .8 Mach R27 series have a limit of +5g for launch conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 I exceed the AoA limit, that was the problem. The fuel was half and no center tank at this moment. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I exceed the AoA limit, that was the problem. The fuel was half and no center tank at this moment. ??? Not sure what you mean by this. OTOH, I've just taken a few test flights with 6 AAMs, beginning the flight with 95% internal fuel (starting gross weight 15,000 Kg), and was hitting a high of 12 Gs down through 7 Gs (8-9 Gs repeatedly) during the course of the flight without issues. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiib Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 ??? Not sure what you mean by this. OTOH, I've just taken a few test flights with 6 AAMs, beginning the flight with 95% internal fuel (starting gross weight 15,000 Kg), and was hitting a high of 12 Gs down through 7 Gs (8-9 Gs repeatedly) during the course of the flight without issues. he means he yanked on the stick too hard and it broke apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 he means he yanked on the stick too hard and it broke apart... By exceeding the AoA limit? This doesn't make sense. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 By exceeding the AoA limit? This doesn't make sense. Do you know how I performed the maneuver? I mean what I did exactly at the moment I pulled 7,6Gs. Please can you show how pull 7,6Gs in any flight regiment without damage the airframe to make sense. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 The point is that you can't overstress an airplane due to exceeding the AoA limit. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Do you know how I performed the maneuver? I mean what I did exactly at the moment I pulled 7,6Gs. Please can you show how pull 7,6Gs in any flight regiment without damage the airframe to make sense. See attached TRK file.G-Test-1.trk YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 ok no wait a minute. Now I found the .acmi I was pulling in a sustained semi-inverted turn with 7,6 Gs with 16 AoA but I forgot told you guys I was overspeed for this move over Mach 1,30. So my bad [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunMcKill Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 We have tested the F-15 fully armed, with 3 bags completely full and begin making rolls after a high speed dive that take the aircraft to 13Gs during the rolls and ... nothing happened! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 We have tested the F-15 fully armed, with 3 bags completely full and begin making rolls after a high speed dive that take the aircraft to 13Gs during the rolls and ... nothing happened! LOL while RU fighters brake apart... :doh: tell me some stories that make us believe again :thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Although it had to be scrapped after this flight, there is a documented case from an F-15 that survived a 20G emergency pull-out. The -1 emergency pull-out table says to apply full aft stick or 10G up to wing rock. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 while RU fighters brake apart... :doh: tell me some stories that make us believe again :thumbup: How’s this for a story? I burnt through to two full fuel loads this morning trying to tear the wings off a MiG-29 and failed miserably. I started at M1.4 and worked my way down in speed. Most turns were in the 8-10 G range with spikes as high as 12 and some less. As a result, I’m not sure that things like fatigue are even modeled for this aircraft like they are for the Su-27. But it certainly isn’t fragile. Don’t know why yours came off but perhaps something extremely odd happened. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fouga Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 How’s this for a story? I burnt through to two full fuel loads this morning trying to tear the wings off a MiG-29 and failed miserably. I started at M1.4 and worked my way down in speed. Most turns were in the 8-10 G range with spikes as high as 12 and some less. As a result, I’m not sure that things like fatigue are even modeled for this aircraft like they are for the Su-27. But it certainly isn’t fragile. Don’t know why yours came off but perhaps something extremely odd happened. Here is a way to reproduce it : 1- Start 8.000m and go into a -30° dive 2- Once you reach M1.3 to M1.4 ... pull on the stick It works 100% since M1.3 with full or medium payload It also works with a slick plane with only 1T fuel at M1.4 Note : as there is no G limiter on MiG-29, this behavior does not seem to be unlogical to me.MiG-29A wings away M1,4.trk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] EVAC : French virtual fighter school on DCS-World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Here is a way to reproduce it : 1- Start 8.000m and go into a -30° dive 2- Once you reach M1.3 to M1.4 ... pull on the stick It works 100% since M1.3 with full or medium payload It also works with a slick plane with only 1T fuel at M1.4 Note : as there is no G limiter on MiG-29, this behavior does not seem to be unlogical to me. Ah... Finally. Tried it with all three aircraft in the mission and the wings snap off--at 16-17Gs. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Since both of you are seeing 'slighty' different G loads for the structural failure, which G value are you looking at? cockpit? F2? during actual flight or replay? Another thought. The G-limit applies only for symmetrical loads. As soon as you are e.g. banking and pulling at the same time, max g-load rapidly decreases. edit: tried with 3 ext tanks and above M1.1 during 9G aileron roll, she didn't break up. Edited July 25, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhand Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Since both of you are seeing 'slighty' different G loads for the structural failure, which G value are you looking at? cockpit? F2? during actual flight or replay? Another thought. The G-limit applies only for symmetrical loads. As soon as you are e.g. banking and pulling at the same time, max g-load rapidly decreases. edit: tried with 3 ext tanks and above M1.1 during 9G aileron roll, she didn't break up. I can only speak for myself with certainty. I am using F2 during replay. The cockpit accelerometer only goes to 10. My assumption is that Fouga (perhaps) and pepin1234 are using Tacview. In F2 view, Fouga's TRK shows the wing snap at 16.7 Gs (you have to slow down playback to read it because the Gs accumulate so quickly). In Tacview, it displays as 7.9. For my part, I've been playing around with both pulling and rolling and pulling simultaneously to see if there was any difference. There wasn't. I had not been doing it with external tanks as that's a no-no. Foulda's test aircraft has all three external tanks attached. The mission is set up with three test aircraft with differing gross weights depending on fuel load: 17,800kg, 15,800kg, 12,400Kg. Enter a dive and pull straight out so that you are also fighting gravity. That method snaps the wings. Edited July 25, 2019 by Ironhand YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 32GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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