Remove Jester suggestion to Drop fuel tanks

[zippoa]

DON'T show menu to drop fuel tanks at first invocation! Leave where it is now -> Within visual range - > Jettison tanks.

 

I was just killed because enemy appeared close and when I called menu to change radar range, that menu appeared and my usual button clicks were ****ed up due to other order of menu

[sLYFa]

+1

[IronMike]

I am sorry, I do not seem to understand. Dropping jettison tanks is under WVR? We did not intend to change that.

[zippoa]

Jester just randomly suggest to drop tanks. When I press A button to call jester menu, there appears circle with two options "Spot" and "Jettison fuel tanks". All this happens when I am in A/A mode. Sometimes this menu appears just after take off with full fuel tanks. And most annoying that this menu repeats from time to time. Even if fuel tanks are already dropped, this menu appears again with option to drop tanks.

 

Dropping jettison tanks under WVR is good. When I see that total fuel is 16000, I enter that menu and tell Jester to drop tanks.

[IronMike]

ok, I see what you mean now. funny this never appeared to me in the Jester menu. We will take a look. Btw you should wait till 13000lbs until you drop your tanks, the Tomcat takes fuel from inner tanks, too, before the external tanks are empty. ;-)

[zippoa]

Thanks! Daaaamn, so I lost 3000 every time

[Spurts]

Yeah, it took me a while to figure that out.

[tstorey37]

And you are costing tax payers a lot of dough :music_whistling::)

[zippoa]

Any ETA about fixing? Right now seems Jester can't remember that he just dropped tanks

[razo+r]

Because there's no indication for external tanks still being on or not.

[zippoa]

But Jester has memory! He must remember his actions done.

[draconus]

He does :) You can still ask him to do it (why not? it's an order) - he will refuse or just push the buttons for you again.

[zippoa]

Man, do you ever read previous messages and not only last? This annoying Jester circle menu with only ONE option "Jettison fuel tanks" keeps appearing all time. Even after tanks were dropped. I want quickly to change my radar settings because there is bandit in 20 miles and what I get instead? F*g option to jettison fuel tanks. Multiple times! I press on it, then call menu again and it is still there! And that focker is incoming and I can't tell Jester to lock him, because all menu options shifted.

 

Why not add "boolean tanksJetissoned = false;" to Jester code. And then like:

 

if (tanksJetissoned == false && fuelLevel < 13000) {
   showMenuToDropTanks();
}


showMenuToDropTanks() {
    dropFuelTanks();
    tanksJetissoned = true;
}

Edited September 9, 2019 by zippoa

[draconus]

It's an option so it stays there. Same if you choose Mk83, then the option to choose Mk83 again even 2 seconds later stays there. Think of commands available to you all the time. It's not quick info wheel - it's just the options menu.

 

Adjusting the menu so it works better with VA is another topic and has been reported already.

[zippoa]

Are you joking? Don't want to be rude, but can you understand information?

 

This menu overrides usual menu. When I am in A/A mode, pressing "A" shows circle with options "STT lock, Change Radar Azimuth, Go silent..."

 

And sometimes that picture appears instead of A/A menu. If I want to drop tanks, I can tell Jester by navigating in "Within Visual Range" -> "Drop fuel tanks".

[Rayak]

The jester menu will adapt based on the situation : in your picture it shows the wvr menu which probably means there is a bandit not far from you. When no bandit is wvr, it will display the bvr menu with stt lock etc.

 

When a bandit is within 15nm I think it is better to put aside jester and to use pilot radar command.

[Rabbisaur]

I fully agree. The drop tanks menu should go away. And show bvr radar menu instead. Actually the drop tanks menu should not even pop up in the first place. I don't mind press a few more buttons to drop tanks. But, when I see a radar contact on TID with in 15 miles. I want jester to lock on it asap. Better with a direct key bind to my HOTAS.

[TOViper]

To sum up my thoughts after flying A LOT with the F-14, I would kindly ask developers once again to think about this, since it drives me crazy whenever it pops up:

 

.) The drop tank option (included in WVR menu) should never pop up at first place in fighting situations. If WVR menu is not intended to be deleted by HB programmers, it should then be extended by a keybinding for Jester like "Emergency drop tanks command to Jester" in the JESTER section of his keybindings.

Why delete the menu completely? Because the WVR menu doesn't contain anything useful (at least I didn't see anything useful so far), thus please give me the option to remove it completely.

 

.) Menu orders should NEVER EVER rearrange (e.g. items usually on the 7th place changing to 6th place or similar).

Why? It is a nightmare to read text on the screen and loose focus to the outside situation (especially in VR), instead of quickly typing numbers (e.g. on the numpad of my keyboard) for commanding Jester while looking out and keeping situational awareness at a high level.

If programmers (still) think this strategy is a good idea: No, I am sorry, it is not. :pilotfly: I thought a long time about this, but I found zero arguments for this behavior of the menu.

[RedX]

+1

TOViper has solid ground in his arguments. He's got all my votes on this.

 

 

Jester menu should be possible to absorb in muscle memory. The changes required are basically choice of display order logic only.

 

 

Constant menu choices would also allow things like VoiceAttack commands to be programmed in.

[IronMike]

We'll take a look guys, we're happy to accept suggestions better than ours, no doubt. I think when we implement Lantirn we will get a chance to refactor maybe a bit how the menu is done.

 

The menus however are situation based. So when you are in BVR, the bvr menu will come up. When you are in WVR the WVR menu will come up with the two in our opinion most important things first: spot in that direction (in case you ever wondered what spot means, he will look where you look for a while) and jettison tanks. because the other options are vls high and lo which you can do yourself through your target designator fwd etc commands. Personally I do not need anything else in a dogfight than jettison tanks.

 

Note: if you are not in a WVR situation, the BVR menu will show instead. Taking away the jettison option when jettisoned (one can argue that you do have a memory just like jester, so why push it twice) you would then still end up with the spot command. This one I think we should rediscuss internally maybe, personally I found little use for it as well. But others might, which just to mention: we are talking a bit about personal preferences here, too. Others might disagree, even if you do not hear their voices here. But we will rediscuss it.

Edited October 27, 2019 by IronMike

[Reflected]

To be honest, I llike it this way. I agree with IronMike. When you are merged the WVR menu becomes default. When I'm defensive I sure don't want to spend 10 seconds fiddling with a menu, and I'm glad that the drop tanks command is right in my face. What else do you need Jester for, when turning with a bandit? Just my 2 cents.

 

Of course I see how it conflicts with some people's voice attack setups.

[IronMike]

Of course I see how it conflicts with some people's voice attack setups.

 

 

This is the part that concerns me the most to be honest. Because of course we want to find a way to allow ease of use of such programs like voice attack. They are predestined for Jester one could say.

[draconus]

I think the easiest way out is to keep the first menu situational and the second menu consistent - if there is no option available atm just leave the empty space but keep the other at the same place/number, so the VA command ex. A,A,3,2,1 has always the same effect (when available).

 

 

Personally I didn't like the graphical Jester menu at all from the beginning and it did not grow on me to this day - I'd love to have an option to keep it txt only like current comms menu.

[IronMike]

I think the easiest way out is to keep the first menu situational and the second menu consistent - if there is no option available atm just leave the empty space but keep the other at the same place/number, so the VA command ex. A,A,3,2,1 has always the same effect (when available).

 

 

Personally I didn't like the graphical Jester menu at all from the beginning and it did not grow on me to this day - I'd love to have an option to keep it txt only like current comms menu.

 

 

That's totally fine, but having it text only might be difficult since it is constructed so that it can be used in a multitude of ways via headtracking, hat switches, bound inputs, and so forth. The multitude of menus and submenus might also make text only navigation actually more of a hassle than it is right now imo.

[zippoa]

What about adding flag to jet settings in main DCS? For example, "Show option to drop tanks on first menu" with values "Yes/No". Also, you may add special keybinding that tells Jester to drop tanks. This way, people would have choice what behavior they want.