Sierra99 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Hey guys...there is all sorts of information that describes how the Cat I/III switch changes the FLCS gains to account for wing loading. The question I and others can NOT find is exactly WHAT constitutes a Cat 1 Load verses CAT III? What is the source document that says..."If you're carrying X Select Cat I and if you're carrying Y select Cat III". Sierra 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buschwick Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii. All other loadouts...cat I. The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I. I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireNZ Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position. We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means! STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category. 1 Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 | Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) What is the source document that says..."If you're carrying X Select Cat I and if you're carrying Y select Cat III". 1F-16CM-1-2 1F-16CM-34-1-1-1 Also, CAT III is recommended during some emergencies, DFLCS faults and on some aircraft damaged, it is not just weapons or loading specific. Edited October 20, 2019 by mvsgas spelling To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buschwick Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) Did either of you two ^^ understand the inquiry? BTW...my answer is prolly best summed as "general". But It's worked for me for 20 years simming the falcon. I've broken many of pylons when being careless and/or greedy with cat i. Edited October 20, 2019 by Buschwick [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouli306 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii. All other loadouts...cat I. The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I. I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that. Tanks may be CAT I. And again..the CAT switch is not a G-limiter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouli306 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position. We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means! STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category. That is what it was designed for (stores caution light) however there are now many configs that produce a false stores config light. In the manuals it will specificaly tell the pilot he may accept a stores config light with certain configs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPatricks Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position. We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means! STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category. Great explanation, you will absolutely get a Stores Config error light on the faults panel during a Ramp start if the switch is in the incorrect position. False Stores Config light? Asus Z790-PLUS D4, Corsair 1000X PS / Intel i9-13900KF @5.8Gz - Corsair H150i Liquid CPU cooler, 64GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @3192mhz / 2TB M.2 NvMe Boot Drive (DCS World Beta installed here), 1TB M.2 Data drive, 1TB WD SATA drive, Zotac Gaming GeForce RTX 4090 Trinity 24GB - Nvidia 552.12 driver / 3 Samsung LC32G53TQWUXEN 32" 7680x1440 at 144Hz / Win11 Pro Ver. 23H2 - Build 22631.3447 TIR 5, TM Warthog HOTAS\VirPil stick base, MFG V3 Crosswind Pedals, TM MFDs on 2 8" Lilliputs/ Simgears ICP / Varjo Aero VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esequiel Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Is those switch light, already functional in DCS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouli306 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii. All other loadouts...cat I. The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I. I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that. A loadout with pylon tanks and 2 AIM-9's and 2 AIM-120's is still CAT I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeman17 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 So here's my question. When we're talking the external tanks are cat 3, that I get. but does this also apply if there's no fuel in them? Can they still hold on when empty? ASUS ROG Strix X570-E MB | Ryzen 9 5950x | ASUS Tuf RTX 4080 | 64 GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 MHz DDR4 | Samsung 970 Evo 1TB m.2 Nvme | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind | Track IR 5 | Gigabyte M27Q-P 1440p 165hz | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanWeeks Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Are over-G effects modeled on stores? I haven't seen any problems with hung or degraded stores situations when they've *definitely* been over-G'ed. Evan "Preacher" Weeks - Dad. Programmer. Virtual Fighter Pilot. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 ... And again..the CAT switch is not a G-limiter Correct. It is an AoA limiter. ASUSTeK ROG MAXIMUS X HERO / Intel Core i5-8600K (4.6 GHz) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FE 12GB / 32GB DDR4 Ballistix Elite 3200 MHz / Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB / Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W Platinum / Windows 10 Home 64-bit / HOTAS Cougar FSSB R1 (Warthog grip) / SIMPED / MFD Cougar / ViperGear ICP / SimShaker JetPad / Track IR 5 / Curved LED 27'' Monitor 1080p Samsung C27F396 / HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macedk Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I would say tanks empty or full is cat 3 , due to the drag factor. Also I saw there might be a speed restrict for cat 3 loadout or you may damage the pylon (hung store). In the old days, I flew (sim) cat 3 and when down to a-a and no tanks, I switch to cat 1. I think in real life, they have to be way more careful than we are in the sim :) Also a plea to DCS Team....never make any of our planes drones, old F-16's are now used as remote drones ....sacrilege ;) OS: Win10 home 64bit*MB: Asus Strix Z270F/ CPU: Intel I7 7700k /Ram:32gb_ddr4 GFX: Nvidia Asus 1080 8Gb Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24" Disk: SSD Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug72 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 In the manuals it will specificaly tell the pilot he may accept a stores config light with certain configs. Maybe, but most of us civvies don't have access to current F-16C flight manuals due to OPSEC and have to go by what ED say in the in-game manual e.g This generally translates to CAT 1 being air-to-air load outs and CAT III being heavier air-to-ground load outs or lots of gas under the wings So, does that mean when the 370Gal wing bags are empty, CAT1 is safe? I'm sure I'm not the only person transitioning from another F-16 sim to DCS who had to drop wing tanks before switching to CAT1 to avoid damage. I'm not arguing, just pointing out that most of the DCS player base don't have access to the same info that those privileged to serve do. I very much appreciate your insight, but you have an advantage. :) i9-9900K @5GHz, Z390 Aorus Pro, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz, EVGA RTX 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra, Seasonic Focus+ Platinum 850W PSU, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, MT deskmounts, Asus 32" 1440p display, EDTracker Pro Wireless, HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiib Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I'd be surprised if ED models pylons breaking due to over-g... they don't even model the F-18 wings breaking at 30g. WIP i know, i know... and in sincerely hope they do a better job modeling stores and pylons in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouli306 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Correct. It is an AoA limiter. ……..and pitch roll and yaw rate limiter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 ……..and pitch roll and yaw rate limiter Yep ... to sum-up: everything but not a G limiter. ;) ASUSTeK ROG MAXIMUS X HERO / Intel Core i5-8600K (4.6 GHz) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FE 12GB / 32GB DDR4 Ballistix Elite 3200 MHz / Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB / Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W Platinum / Windows 10 Home 64-bit / HOTAS Cougar FSSB R1 (Warthog grip) / SIMPED / MFD Cougar / ViperGear ICP / SimShaker JetPad / Track IR 5 / Curved LED 27'' Monitor 1080p Samsung C27F396 / HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamenchan Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I you want to know precisely what are cat I / cat III loadouts, you must find the 1F-�16CM-�1�-2 manual, there is everything to calculate that in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamenchan Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Also, as there is no built-in g-limiter in the F-16 (contrary to the hornet), the pilot must be careful with his stick inputs, because even with the switch in CAT III position, he can pull 9+G's, which would be over the limit for the loadout and thus cause damage to the aircraft. Some exemples : 4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 7,0G limit 2x AIM-120, 4x AIM-9, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat I, 7,0G limit 4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 1x 300 gal tanks = cat I, 7,0G limit 6x AIM-9 = cat I, 9,0G limit 4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9 = cat I, 8.5G limit 2x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 2x AGM-88, HTS pod, AN/ALQ-184, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 6,0G limit 2x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 4x GBU-12, Sniper, AN/ALQ-184, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 5,5G limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team m4ti140 Posted November 29, 2019 ED Team Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Maybe, but most of us civvies don't have access to current F-16C flight manuals due to OPSEC and have to go by what ED say in the in-game manual e.g The Greek block 52 manual can be read on Public Intelligence and there are no region locks in place or anything. When it comes to g limits it should be good enough as a source. Remember the F-16 in game is not the "current" F-16 but the 2007 one, there's declassified information floating around. In fact AFAIK that's what ED is working with, they're modelling based on publically released info, at least that's what one of their public statements implied. Edit: OK, nvm, the stores g limits are in the elusive -1-2, which is nowhere to be found. Well, sh*t :( Edited November 29, 2019 by m4ti140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaic Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Compared to the other F16 sim, the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III. Wonder which is more realistic. At this time, there doesn't seem to be any point in flying with CAT III i7 - 9700k | EVGA 1080Ti | 32 DDR4 RAM | 750w PS | TM Warthog HOTAS/X-55 | Track IR 5 | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III. It is. And not only in roll. Aircraft is VERY "heavy" in pitch => Landing gains are not good. Remember ... it is WIP. EDIT: Disregard. I've misread the post and thought he were referring to LG. Sorry. Edited December 1, 2019 by Dee-Jay Sorry ... missreading of previous post. ASUSTeK ROG MAXIMUS X HERO / Intel Core i5-8600K (4.6 GHz) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FE 12GB / 32GB DDR4 Ballistix Elite 3200 MHz / Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB / Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W Platinum / Windows 10 Home 64-bit / HOTAS Cougar FSSB R1 (Warthog grip) / SIMPED / MFD Cougar / ViperGear ICP / SimShaker JetPad / Track IR 5 / Curved LED 27'' Monitor 1080p Samsung C27F396 / HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Wags Posted December 1, 2019 ED Team Share Posted December 1, 2019 Compared to the other F16 sim, the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III. Wonder which is more realistic. At this time, there doesn't seem to be any point in flying with CAT III We have the no-kidding rate charts for CAT III and they match. Thanks Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorBrasil Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 We have the no-kidding rate charts for CAT III and they match. Thanks Does the F-16 warn you when you put the CAT in the wrong position? I know the aircraft is still WIP. That's why I'm asking. Thank you! |Motherboard|: Asus TUF Gaming X570-PLUS, |WaterCooler|: Corsair H115i Pro, |CPU|: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X, |RAM|: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3200MHz DDR4, |SSD|: Kingston A2000 500GB M.2 NVMe, |SSD|: Kingston 2.5´ 480GB UV400 SATA III, |SSHD|: Seagate Híbrido 2TB 7200RPM SATA III, |GPU|: MSI Gaming 980Ti, |Monitor|: LG UltraWide 34UM68, |Joystick 1|: Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, |Joystick 2|: T.Flight Rudder Pedals, |Head Motion|: TrackIr 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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