CAT I/III Loading

[Sierra99]

Hey guys...there is all sorts of information that describes how the Cat I/III switch changes the FLCS gains to account for wing loading.

 

The question I and others can NOT find is exactly WHAT constitutes a Cat 1 Load verses CAT III?

 

What is the source document that says..."If you're carrying X Select Cat I and if you're carrying Y select Cat III".

 

Sierra

[Buschwick]

any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii.

 

All other loadouts...cat I.

 

The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I.

 

I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that.

[VampireNZ]

Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position.

 

We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means!

 

STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category.

[mvsgas]

What is the source document that says..."If you're carrying X Select Cat I and if you're carrying Y select Cat III".

1F-16CM-1-2

1F-16CM-34-1-1-1

 

Also, CAT III is recommended during some emergencies, DFLCS faults and on some aircraft damaged, it is not just weapons or loading specific.

Edited October 20, 2019 by mvsgas
spelling

[Buschwick]

Did either of you two ^^ understand the inquiry?

 

BTW...my answer is prolly best summed as "general". But It's worked for me for 20 years simming the falcon. I've broken many of pylons when being careless and/or greedy with cat i.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Buschwick

[Bouli306]

any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii.

 

All other loadouts...cat I.

 

The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I.

 

I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that.

 

Tanks may be CAT I. And again..the CAT switch is not a G-limiter

[Bouli306]

Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position.

 

We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means!

 

STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category.

 

That is what it was designed for (stores caution light) however there are now many configs that produce a false stores config light. In the manuals it will specificaly tell the pilot he may accept a stores config light with certain configs.

[GPatricks]

Ideally the aircraft is supposed to throw up a STORES CONFIG warning if you have the system loaded with specific stores loadout and the CAT I/III switch is in the wrong position.

 

We were always told - learn your lights and their meanings! You would be surprised how many aircrew 'think' they know exactly what a specific caution light actually means!

 

STORES CONFIG Caution Light - STORES CONFIG switch is in incorrect position or loading category in SMS software disagrees with actual GP/STORE/LINE loading category.

 

Great explanation, you will absolutely get a Stores Config error light on the faults panel during a Ramp start if the switch is in the incorrect position. False Stores Config light?

[esequiel]

Is those switch light, already functional in DCS ?

[Bouli306]

any a-g weapons at all or tanks will be cat iii.

 

All other loadouts...cat I.

 

The station 5 ecm pod can be cat I.

 

I'm not sure about wing mounted ecm pods on 3/7. Also not sure if that's a real possibility as I only have another sim in mind that can do that.

 

 

 

A loadout with pylon tanks and 2 AIM-9's and 2 AIM-120's is still CAT I.

[dudeman17]

So here's my question. When we're talking the external tanks are cat 3, that I get. but does this also apply if there's no fuel in them? Can they still hold on when empty?

[EvanWeeks]

Are over-G effects modeled on stores? I haven't seen any problems with hung or degraded stores situations when they've *definitely* been over-G'ed.

[Dee-Jay]

... And again..the CAT switch is not a G-limiter

 

Correct. It is an AoA limiter.

[macedk]

I would say tanks empty or full is cat 3 , due to the drag factor.

 

Also I saw there might be a speed restrict for cat 3 loadout or you may damage the pylon (hung store).

 

In the old days, I flew (sim) cat 3 and when down to a-a and no tanks, I switch to cat 1.

 

I think in real life, they have to be way more careful than we are in the sim :)

 

Also a plea to DCS Team....never make any of our planes drones, old F-16's are now used as remote drones ....sacrilege ;)

[Slug72]

In the manuals it will specificaly tell the pilot he may accept a stores config light with certain configs.

 

Maybe, but most of us civvies don't have access to current F-16C flight manuals due to OPSEC and have to go by what ED say in the in-game manual e.g

 

This generally

translates to CAT 1 being air-to-air load outs and CAT III being heavier air-to-ground load outs or lots of gas under the wings

 

So, does that mean when the 370Gal wing bags are empty, CAT1 is safe?

 

I'm sure I'm not the only person transitioning from another F-16 sim to DCS who had to drop wing tanks before switching to CAT1 to avoid damage.

 

I'm not arguing, just pointing out that most of the DCS player base don't have access to the same info that those privileged to serve do. I very much appreciate your insight, but you have an advantage. :)

[Banzaiib]

I'd be surprised if ED models pylons breaking due to over-g... they don't even model the F-18 wings breaking at 30g. WIP i know, i know... and in sincerely hope they do a better job modeling stores and pylons in the near future.

[Bouli306]

Correct. It is an AoA limiter.

 

 

 

……..and pitch roll and yaw rate limiter

[Dee-Jay]

……..and pitch roll and yaw rate limiter

 

Yep ... to sum-up: everything but not a G limiter. ;)

[Pamenchan]

I you want to know precisely what are cat I / cat III loadouts, you must find the 1F-�16CM-�1�-2 manual, there is everything to calculate that in it.

[Pamenchan]

Also, as there is no built-in g-limiter in the F-16 (contrary to the hornet), the pilot must be careful with his stick inputs, because even with the switch in CAT III position, he can pull 9+G's, which would be over the limit for the loadout and thus cause damage to the aircraft.

 

 

Some exemples :

 

 

4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 7,0G limit

2x AIM-120, 4x AIM-9, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat I, 7,0G limit

4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 1x 300 gal tanks = cat I, 7,0G limit

6x AIM-9 = cat I, 9,0G limit

4x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9 = cat I, 8.5G limit

2x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 2x AGM-88, HTS pod, AN/ALQ-184, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 6,0G limit

2x AIM-120, 2x AIM-9, 4x GBU-12, Sniper, AN/ALQ-184, 2x 370 gal tanks = cat III, 5,5G limit

[m4ti140]

Maybe, but most of us civvies don't have access to current F-16C flight manuals due to OPSEC and have to go by what ED say in the in-game manual e.g

 

 

The Greek block 52 manual can be read on Public Intelligence and there are no region locks in place or anything. When it comes to g limits it should be good enough as a source. Remember the F-16 in game is not the "current" F-16 but the 2007 one, there's declassified information floating around. In fact AFAIK that's what ED is working with, they're modelling based on publically released info, at least that's what one of their public statements implied.

 

Edit: OK, nvm, the stores g limits are in the elusive -1-2, which is nowhere to be found. Well, sh*t :(

Edited November 29, 2019 by m4ti140

[Archaic]

Compared to the other F16 sim, the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III. Wonder which is more realistic.

 

At this time, there doesn't seem to be any point in flying with CAT III

[Dee-Jay]

the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III.

 

It is. And not only in roll. Aircraft is VERY "heavy" in pitch => Landing gains are not good.

 

Remember ... it is WIP.

 

EDIT: Disregard. I've misread the post and thought he were referring to LG. Sorry.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Dee-Jay
Sorry ... missreading of previous post.

[Wags]

Compared to the other F16 sim, the DCS F16 seems very slow to roll in CAT III. Wonder which is more realistic.

 

At this time, there doesn't seem to be any point in flying with CAT III

 

We have the no-kidding rate charts for CAT III and they match.

 

Thanks

[ThorBrasil]

We have the no-kidding rate charts for CAT III and they match.

 

Thanks

 

Does the F-16 warn you when you put the CAT in the wrong position? I know the aircraft is still WIP. That's why I'm asking. Thank you!