BlackPixxel Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 In the russian forums are several MiG-29 pilots critizising the DCS MiG-29 flight model. They say it is very easy to land in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted July 4, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) In the russian forums are several MiG-29 pilots critizising the DCS MiG-29 flight model. They say it is very easy to land in real life. It is very easy to criticise, unless it comes with data or evidence it isn't helpful. as the title says we have reported this bounce issue to the team thanks Edited July 4, 2020 by BIGNEWY Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I guess was already reported and is no needs to continue upload track. That’s why the [REPORTED] on the thread name was made... should we continually keep posting landing tracks? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 tell those Russian MiG pilots they have to have proof to their claims, maybe they have test footage of landing gear during development of the plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) Yes there are videos with good landing. As well you, me and whoever can replicate a well done landing. If you can do it well is not the point... the real deal is when you touchdown a little bit faster than 350km/h and you make the touchdown with a little bit higher vertical speed... or a little bit nose up... THEN HAPPEN!! The MiG-29 bounce straight up with nose up almost 20 meters. Is not accepted... because they are closing the doors for the people don’t accomplish a narrow range or error they set for landing MiG-29 in a unrealistic manner. When pilots experience that they will not like take the MiG-29 again because they gonna find this hard landing and they will get kill themself trying to land MiG-29. Obviously this gonna make MiG-29 useless for the majority of the players, mostly new ones. I had a friend that he was a permanent MiG-29 pilot. After all the upgrades they did I have never seen again this guy in DCS. One time I contact him and he told me ED have downgrade everything for MiG-29 and is not anymore possible do it well. This is the history who experience success with MiG-29 years ago.... tell me what will say a new player when experience this bounce to the sky landing...? Edited July 4, 2020 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) There are only few things from the aircraft manual to land a MiG : 1. Approach speed and glide slope (310 starting the final and 280 kph at the end) and glide slope (50 m over a radio beacon). 2. Starting flare at 7-9 m over the surface at 280 kph. 3. Do not hesitate to pull the stick just before a touchdown maintaining touchdown nose attitude. 4. Gently pull throttle back to idle only after you are see that the plane is home and dry. Edited July 5, 2020 by Yo-Yo Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 Yes there are videos with good landing. As well you, me and whoever can replicate a well done landing. If you can do it well is not the point... the real deal is when you touchdown a little bit faster than 350km/h and you make the touchdown with a little bit higher vertical speed... or a little bit nose up... THEN HAPPEN!! The MiG-29 bounce straight up with nose up almost 20 meters. Is not accepted... because they are closing the doors for the people don’t accomplish a narrow range or error they set for landing MiG-29 in a unrealistic manner. When pilots experience that they will not like take the MiG-29 again because they gonna find this hard landing and they will get kill themself trying to land MiG-29. Obviously this gonna make MiG-29 useless for the majority of the players, mostly new ones. I had a friend that he was a permanent MiG-29 pilot. After all the upgrades they did I have never seen again this guy in DCS. One time I contact him and he told me ED have downgrade everything for MiG-29 and is not anymore possible do it well. This is the history who experience success with MiG-29 years ago.... tell me what will say a new player when experience this bounce to the sky landing...? Higher speed than 350 kph??? As the directed touchdown speed is 260 kph? Nosewheel touchdown? Are you kidding? The cadet who tries to land MiG this way will be fired in seconds... even earlier he enters a hospital. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I have seen Mig-29 landing at more than 300km/h. Could be a hard touchdown but do you really think is for get a response of a big bounce as we getting right now. I mean if we bounce is ok, but we are talking about a high bounce that make you lost the total control. This is only my point.... the bounce is so high that we finish in a fatal lost. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I have seen hard touchdowns and never see a nose up bounce like that we get in DCS. I know what I am taking about. 2 days ago happen to me. I got a engine malfunction and yes I touchdown with a bit more than 300km/h I got a fatal lost with the comical bounce nose up all the way until I crashed. I know I was a little hurried up because my failure but also was not so crazy out of parameters. I know how to land the MiG-29 but sometimes that happen and the very weird is that this only happen with MiG-29 more and more often. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 I have seen Mig-29 landing at more than 300km/h. Could be a hard touchdown but do you really think is for get a response of a big bounce as we getting right now. I mean if we bounce is ok, but we are talking about a high bounce that make you lost the total control. This is only my point.... the bounce is so high that we finish in a fatal lost. 300 kph is not normal for the normal landing mass and flaps down, and would be considered as a possible accident reason. If someone attempt to land at this speed he must be very careful avoiding significant sink rate, because the plane has a lot of lift to bounce. And any nose wheel touch down is strictly prohibited because of two reasons - it leads to immediate nose-up AoA lift bounce, and the nose wheel is not designed for touchdown strikes. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kazansky Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 don't know the weight, but you can observe gauges and HUD repeater beautifully here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I don’t know boss. I land pretty sweet the MiG-21 and Su-27 and L-39 or MiG-19. The MiG-29 drive me crazy in landing. Is the most killer machine in landing. I didn’t open this thread to tell you the same killer bounce problems. I just telling you I experience the same. Too much bounce nose up too high, only with MiG-29. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) don't know the weight, but you can observe gauges and HUD repeater beautifully here: Yes, 260 (270...275 at HUD) at touchdown. Edited July 5, 2020 by Yo-Yo Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 I don’t know boss. I land pretty sweet the MiG-21 and Su-27 and L-39 or MiG-19. The MiG-29 drive me crazy in landing. Is the most killer machine in landing. I didn’t open this thread to tell you the same killer bounce problems. I just telling you I experience the same. Too much bounce nose up too high, only with MiG-29. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 300 kph is not normal for the normal landing mass and flaps down, and would be considered as a possible accident reason. If someone attempt to land at this speed he must be very careful avoiding significant sink rate, because the plane has a lot of lift to bounce. And any nose wheel touch down is strictly prohibited because of two reasons - it leads to immediate nose-up AoA lift bounce, and the nose wheel is not designed for touchdown strikes. We'd be fine with such jumps and be fine with damaged gear. But it's not what is happening to Mig-29 bad landings. Jumps are huge and gear do not break then. It's the only issue and point of this thread. We all can land Fulcrum perfectly alright and it does land beautiful. But it's not of interest of this thread so please don't waste your time on proper landings here. Make a few bad ones instead :) It's not like we ask for proper simulation of upside down landings. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Yo-Yo, I show here real MiG-29 pilot landing with some other technique that what is prescribed in pilots operation manual see the resulting behavior of the plane when making contact with the ground, I never noticed him even raise the nose for the landing after making wings level. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4409121&postcount=43 Also, on his landing he deploys the drag chute at least the the same height if you take the vertical tails and extrapolate another vertical tail below the fuselage in relation with the ground so some considerable height above the ground prior to initial touchdown on gear. Edited July 5, 2020 by Baz000 add info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 Yo-Yo, I show here real MiG-29 pilot landing with some other technique that what is prescribed in pilots operation manual see the resulting behavior of the plane when making contact with the ground, I never noticed him even raise the nose for the landing after making wings level. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4409121&postcount=43 Also, on his landing he deploys the drag chute at least the the same height if you take the vertical tails and extrapolate another vertical tail below the fuselage in relation with the ground so some considerable height above the ground prior to initial touchdown on gear. Have you seen the video above? Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 yeah I did and I saw you are trying to replicate the same way Anatoliy lands but the deployment of the drag chute needs to occur higher off the ground based on the real video also with little to no flaring up of the nose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Please stop with the Anatoliy. We were promised to look into nose strut strenght/damage model. Nothing more, nothing less. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4312523&postcount=40 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 why should I stop it is a video of a real landing with the plane, it is hard to find such a video in the first place... I spent lots of my time to find it and it clearly does demonstrate the rugged landing gear of the plane and how well MiG designers did in the engineering of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 why should I stop it is a video of a real landing with the plane, it is hard to find such a video in the first place... I spent lots of my time to find it and it clearly does demonstrate the rugged landing gear of the plane and how well MiG designers did in the engineering of it Of course, I can not replicate Kvochur's landing with 1% accuracy, because we do not know 2 things - landing weight and exact speed he deployed the parachute. And obviously I can not exactly replicate his control inputs. But the second landing in my video demonstrates the chute deployed higher than standard flaring altitude, and the plane landed to three points simultaneously without bouncing, so no "weird nose wheel", etc. Please show the track or video or both, what seems weird to you. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I have a track here where I landed and had a main wheel tire burst and I have no idea why https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yVtpplNR4YWpBmfnCzCza_MgYcwJ_2pO/view?usp=sharing I will jump ingame and record a few more shorter tracks of just landings. I appreciate you cannot replicate 100% the landing Anatoliy does but my intention for pointing it out was to show the aircraft behavior, sucks we can’t know those parameters he used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 But Yo-Yo the point is the death after not get into certain landing parameters. The persistent high bounce to the sky seem to me something exaggerated. There is not chance for broken tires or landing gear malfunctioning. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 5, 2020 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) What do you mean "not get into certain landing parameters"? I showed that even if you land with the speed even more than 330 kph that is MAXIMAL PERMITTED SPEED nothing happens. I showed that even at three point touchdown nothing happens. I think you do not consider the first suicidal video with 400 kph nose down ground strike as "landing not get into certain landing parameters"? Edited July 5, 2020 by Yo-Yo Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz000 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Here I just crashed in this track, it looks like also I have no friction on skidding down the runway after crashing when trying to land... I'm doing more attempts to try to narrow down the cause. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KE37LvyK_n4eB1_PRNSJHEvqaP5FNG-v/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RnKGacQEgVbXl5NcNwBihVH_pecDLXne/view?usp=sharing Edited July 5, 2020 by Baz000 more tracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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