Barthek's CAUCASUS REDONE 2022

[rbz]

@Barthek
Is it even possible to beat the following:
1. Install BARTHEK's CAUCASUS REDONE 2022 - REV 2 (by BARTHEK)
2. Install Caucasus CGTC 2.84.1 2023 Edition (by - Luke Marqs) over top of it
3. Install Caucasus_Better_Trees_v6_Dark_Low (by Taz1004)
4. Optionally Install Snowless Caucasus by BARTHEK

Default Syria looks amazing is many areas and I have noticed the Massun92's work is being used to upgrade assets across many maps.
It looks like real potential is in cities (to replace the Falcon 4.0 quality images with something resembling city streets and houses that are passible without exceeding a basic poly-count.

What do you think of this?

I am seeing Syria and Sinai as being distantly out in front in terms of quality, Kola is rarely as good as the output of the stacking of your work with "Luke Marqs"'s even after the last update. 

It would be interesting to know why this is not an acceptable path forward in general, licensing maybe?

I know nothing of graphic design. Just layman observations.

[MAXsenna]

@Barthek
Is it even possible to beat the following:
1. Install BARTHEK's CAUCASUS REDONE 2022 - REV 2 (by BARTHEK)
2. Install Caucasus CGTC 2.84.1 2023 Edition (by - Luke Marqs) over top of it
3. Install Caucasus_Better_Trees_v6_Dark_Low (by Taz1004)
4. Optionally Install Snowless Caucasus by BARTHEK

Default Syria looks amazing is many areas and I have noticed the Massun92's work is being used to upgrade assets across many maps.
It looks like real potential is in cities (to replace the Falcon 4.0 quality images with something resembling city streets and houses that are passible without exceeding a basic poly-count.

What do you think of this?

I am seeing Syria and Sinai as being distantly out in front in terms of quality, Kola is rarely as good as the output of the stacking of your work with "Luke Marqs"'s even after the last update. 

It would be interesting to know why this is not an acceptable path forward in general, licensing maybe?

I know nothing of graphic design. Just layman observations.

This got my attention. You actually have 2 on top of 1? That's interesting. What does 2 do again. I used to use Lucshep's mod, but I did transfer to Barthek's a couple of years ago. Been a long time fan on Taz1004 if course!
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[dlder]

I'd really like to know:

• now that the "terrain.cfg.lua" is encrypted, what do we do? Can we just delete the encrypted one? Does somebody have a de-crypter, to merge the changes by ED into the mods file?

Because as it stands, this file is no longer relevant....

Also:

8 hours ago, rbz said:

2. Install Caucasus CGTC 2.84.1 2023 Edition (by - Luke Marqs) over top of it

I at least wouldn't install the terrain.cfg.lua

I mean, I wouldn't mix those 2 anyways, you'll never know which texture would be out of place. But to each their own.

  

6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

3. Install Caucasus_Better_Trees_v6_Dark_Low (by Taz1004)

I've also been using all the tree-mods from Taz, but as it is currently, they are out of date and imho should no longer be used (just compare the files they use; ED updated some and are thus newer / don't exist with Taz's mods).

Edited October 3, 2024 by dlder

[MAXsenna]

I'd really like to know:

• now that the "terrain.cfg.lua" is encrypted, what do we do? Can we just delete the encrypted one? Does somebody have a de-crypter, to merge the changes by ED into the mods file?

Because as it stands, this file is no longer relevant....
Also:
I've also been using all the tree-mods from Taz, but as it is currently, they are out of date and imho should no longer be used (just compare the files they use; ED updated some and are thus newer / don't exist with Taz's mods).

Thanks! I was kinda wondering about that.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[rbz]

20 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

This got my attention. You actually have 2 on top of 1? That's interesting. What does 2 do again. I used to use Lucshep's mod, but I did transfer to Barthek's a couple of years ago. Been a long time fan on Taz1004 if course!
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

CGTC is ground texture-specific, aiming for a modern, crisp look with good performance with a focus on the terrain details. Where BARTHEK’s mod is a nearly comprehensive working to fix the entire environment (trees, lighting, water, etc.).

CGTC often emphasizes performance improvements with quality textures.
BARTHEK’s seems to focus on visual immersion vs. resource usage (this is a guess. I don't know either developer)

I am trying to understand @dlder's comments. I know basically nothing in this area and am still amazed by reshade and even just adjusting my Gamma LOL.

 

[MAXsenna]

Just now, rbz said:

CGTC is ground texture-specific, aiming for a modern, crisp look with good performance with a focus on the terrain details. Where BARTHEK’s mod is a nearly comprehensive working to fix the entire environment (trees, lighting, water, etc.).

CGTC often emphasizes performance improvements with quality textures.
BARTHEK’s seems to focus on visual immersion vs. resource usage (this is a guess. I don't know either developer)

I am trying to understand @dlder's comments. I know basically nothing in this area and am still amazed by reshade and even just adjusting my Gamma LOL.

 

Thanks! I'll merge everything in one big mod I can apply I seconds.

[flag02004]

7 hours ago, rbz said:

CGTC is ground texture-specific, aiming for a modern, crisp look with good performance with a focus on the terrain details. Where BARTHEK’s mod is a nearly comprehensive working to fix the entire environment (trees, lighting, water, etc.).

CGTC often emphasizes performance improvements with quality textures.
BARTHEK’s seems to focus on visual immersion vs. resource usage (this is a guess. I don't know either developer)

I am trying to understand @dlder's comments. I know basically nothing in this area and am still amazed by reshade and even just adjusting my Gamma LOL.

 

Hi @rbz, maybe you're right about the aim of the different mod. But If you install BARTHEK's mod first and after CGTC's mod, you will overwrite all BARTHEK's files.....so nothing will remain of BARTHEK's work....

[MAXsenna]

29 minutes ago, flag02004 said:

Hi @rbz, maybe you're right about the aim of the different mod. But If you install BARTHEK's mod first and after CGTC's mod, you will overwrite all BARTHEK's files.....so nothing will remain of BARTHEK's work....

In which way would you suggest to merge the two to get the best results?

[flag02004]

Hi @MAXsenna. Actually I don't know, I was using BARTHEK's mod for a long time, and lately i changed for CGTC's mod because i thought it bring out the best of the old Caucasus map (my own opinion) with some Reshade preset On....

I checked the two mods, there are more files in the CGTC mod than BARTHEK's, and the main difference between the two is that the first one modify more files from the main DCS Caucasus map folder...

9 hours ago, rbz said:

CGTC is ground texture-specific, aiming for a modern, crisp look with good performance with a focus on the terrain details. Where BARTHEK’s mod is a nearly comprehensive working to fix the entire environment (trees, lighting, water, etc.).

I don't know how to verify this statement, for me it's only a matter of personal feeling...

Edited October 4, 2024 by flag02004

[MAXsenna]

Hi @MAXsenna. Actually I don't know, I was using BARTHEK's mod for a long time, and lately i changed for CGTC's mod because i thought it bring out the best of the old Caucasus map (my own opinion) with some Reshade preset On....
I checked the two mods, there are more files in the CGTC mod than BARTHEK's, and the main difference between the two is that the first one modify more files from the main DCS Caucasus map folder...

Thanks! I wish I was more, (totally below n00b level here), knowledgeable about this myself, and I could have looked more into this on the file level.
I will definitely take a closer look at CGTC again. @rbz If I remember correctly, didn't some of these enhancements, get incorporated into the sim. I have a feeling that was the reason I "switched".
Anyways. Maybe I mentioned this. I have started to use another mod manager called SLAM. It's in the user files. Instead of spending lots of time backing up files, and then overwriting the with the mods. It creates symbolic links, and can apply large mods like these in seconds, which are good for the drives. But also reduces time for testing and comparison. What I did with Barthek's two versions. I have them now in two folders where I overwrote the original with the snow less in one. And now can easily switch between the two very quickly.
Thanks again guys!

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[LucShep]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:50 AM, rbz said:

CGTC is ground texture-specific, aiming for a modern, crisp look with good performance with a focus on the terrain details. Where BARTHEK’s mod is a nearly comprehensive working to fix the entire environment (trees, lighting, water, etc.).

CGTC often emphasizes performance improvements with quality textures.
BARTHEK’s seems to focus on visual immersion vs. resource usage (this is a guess. I don't know either developer)
 

The objective is pretty much the same in either mod but, as I see it, CGTC goes a little further because, inclusively, it also covers "Low" textures besides the "High" textures.
Therefore, the terrain retexture mod can be used by everybody, even those with older/slower GPUs, or for those struggling with VR requirements.

CGTC modifies everything texture related to the terrain. From ground, mountain, rocks, to fields, trees, towns, airport terrain textures (and matching hangars), etc.
It also modifies the gamma, palette and overall colors of Caucasus, through readjusted ingame files (there are no Reshades here). 
It just doesn't modify the water or buildings/houses, as I saw no need.

 

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, LucShep said:

The objective is pretty much the same in either mod but, as I see it, CGTC goes a little further because, inclusively, it also covers "Low" textures besides the "High" textures.
Therefore, the terrain retexture mod can be used by everybody, even those with older/slower GPUs, or for those struggling with VR requirements.

CGTC modifies everything texture related to the terrain. From ground, mountain, rocks, to fields, trees, towns, airport terrain textures (and matching hangars), etc.
It also modifies the gamma, palette and overall colors of Caucasus, through readjusted ingame files (there are no Reshades here). 
It just doesn't modify the water or buildings/houses, as I saw no need.

 

Does @dlder's post above make sense to you?
Do you think you will update/support your version if DCS brakes it?

[LucShep]

40 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Does @dlder's post above make sense to you?
Do you think you will update/support your version if DCS brakes it?

If it's related with CGTC please post in its forum thread (I'll do my best to help if it's in my power).

This thread is for Barthek's CAUCASUS REDONE 2022 and should remain so. 

[MAXsenna]

If it's related with CGTC please post in its forum thread (I'll do my best to help if it's in my power).

This thread is for Barthek's CAUCASUS REDONE 2022 and should remain so. 

'pologies
Got carried away.

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[dlder]

On 10/4/2024 at 5:50 AM, rbz said:

CGTC often emphasizes performance improvements with quality textures.
BARTHEK’s seems to focus on visual immersion vs. resource usage (this is a guess. I don't know either developer)

I just work in IT, which doesn't actually mean anything other then that it allows me to make educated guesses and allows me to do some modding if I like.

BUT: I don't know nothing about textures and stuff! So, I can only manually check every file from mods vs. the games files, which I do on pretty much every update.

The gist is this: CGTC has lower quality textures and also fewer textures then Barthek. That's why I prefer this texture pack. And again: I cannot recommend to mix both, but if you do, install CGTC first and then Bartheks.

Caucassus Terrain hasn't been changed by ED in quite a few years, so this pack is still very relevant. Only the now encoded terrain.cfg remains a problem...

On 10/5/2024 at 2:55 PM, LucShep said:

it also covers "Low" textures besides the "High" textures.

That is true!
But it shouldn't really affect you, if you have texture and visiblity set to max. ALTHOUGH: I have no idea how the LOD system works in this game... maybe it would be beneficial to mix both mods, but then you'd have the nasty job of manually unpacking all ZIPs of both mods and use the "best texture". And even then you have the problem, that maybe the darkness/shading isn't the same, so you have different kinds of textures between low- and high-quality.

-> try both and stick with one

[Art-J]

13 hours ago, dlder said:

And even then you have the problem, that maybe the darkness/shading isn't the same, so you have different kinds of textures between low- and high-quality.

THIS.

Barthek's mod is tweaked for gamma 2.5 + reshade and thus is overall darker. Lucshep's mod is tweaked for stock 2.2 I believe.

I did consider mixing up files from both, especially using superior town and building textures from former on top of the latter, but it was obvious that simple file replacement method won't work, as the edges of Barthek's terrain texture tile won't match the tone of Lucshep's field tile and there will be sharp line betweek both greens. That would require some texture editing skills beyond my ability.

There's another factor to consider: Barthek's more detailed and grainy field textures will make ground target spotting more difficult than Lucshep's ones to some extent, so mod choice also depends on what type of missions one usually flies in DCS.

In either case, I also recommend just trying both for a few weeks. I eventually got back to CGTC, but both are good in their own right.

EDIT - made some new comparisons today and had to change my impressions - see post below.

Edited October 12, 2024 by Art-J

[LucShep]

12 hours ago, dlder said:

The gist is this: CGTC has lower quality textures and also fewer textures then Barthek. That's why I prefer this texture pack. And again: I cannot recommend to mix both, but if you do, install CGTC first and then Bartheks.

 

This is false.
I'm looking at both mods' content and I don't see any less textures in CGTC, on the contrary (even if excluding the LOW textures - which is not a small factor).
They also sure don't look like lower quality to me. 



What I haven't done for CGTC is a separate "snowless winter / later autumn" optional, which is a nice alternative that Bartek left for those who dislike a (white) snowy winter.
I mainly kept with the default ED theme for Caucasus seasons, goal was "Caucasus overhaul" after all.
 

4 hours ago, Art-J said:

Barthek's mod is tweaked for gamma 2.5 + reshade and thus is overall darker. Lucshep's mod is tweaked for stock 2.2 I believe.

I did consider mixing up files from both, especially using superior town and building textures from former on top of the latter

This is also false, in both accounts.

• I'm looking at both mods' content and I don't see any "brighter/darker" textures either. Actually, I'm surprised how close they are (not same, but closer than expected). 
  What I definitely see is an implementation of Reshade with own settings in Bartek's that, yes, change vibrance, tones and shading - this influences immensely.
  
  CGTC is meant to be used with Gamma set at 2.0 (avoid less than 1.8 or more than 2.2). It is so because that specific value is usually the most balanced for both monitors and VR, for all terrains and atmosphere related shaders. (IIRC, used to be default in early 2.55 OB)
  CGTC has its own specifically tweaked palette and shading settings and files (which look different, and also darker than stock), so that such aspect isn't dependant on external applications (like Reshade, or SweetFX). The use of Reshade on top of it was not intended but, if you want to do it, that is up to you.

• I also don't see where the "superior" towns and buildings (Hardsplat) textures come from. They're the same.
  I'm looking at them one by one right now and they are the same ones seen in "stock Caucasus" that I prepared for ED (brought back and rebuilt from the older 1.5 ones for the release of 2.7 OB years back, still in stock content today).  And are same ones that I still included (just tone readjusted) in CGTC.

What is obvious is the different art style and techniques adopted by each different mod, for certain aspects, when placed in the game.
Which has to do with personal preference and taste. And this is why mixxing both mods is a bad idea - things look mismatched in places then. 
To some extent, similar can be said for the usage of reshade (or none usage of it). 

All in all, it is definitely dependable on individual - given that the choice is there, use what you prefer.

My question to @Art-J and @dlder now is: Are you sure you tried the latest version of CGTC (2.84) over stock Caucasus, not the older releases (before May of 2023) ? 

Edited October 12, 2024 by LucShep

[Art-J]

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

My question to @Art-J and @dlder now is: Are you sure you tried the latest version of CGTC (2.84) over stock Caucasus, not the older releases (before May of 2023) ? 

Absolutely, even later than the latest - 2.84.1  

Have to admit now, though, that my observations are clearly outdated and based on comparisons made when Barthek was still actively supporting his mod, which was what, 2 years ago or so? I used to switch between his and yours a few times to decide which one I wanted to stick with and the difference in buildings and overall brightness was very obvious to me back then. It eventually became the primary reason why I decided to stick to yours in the end - I've never used Reshade for colour tweaking, was tired of changing gamma constantly between both mods and certainly didn't want to do it while switching from Barthek's Caucasus to stock Nevada and Normandy). 

Now that I think about it, didn't ED update Caucasus buildings in the meantime, or am I mis-remembering old patch notes?

In either case, you're right - as seen below the difference nowadays is negligible in city areas. One more reason to stick to CGTC for me then  

 

[dlder]

On 10/12/2024 at 7:28 PM, LucShep said:

I'm looking at both mods' content and I don't see any less textures in CGTC, on the contrary (even if excluding the LOW textures - which is not a small factor).
They also sure don't look like lower quality to me. 

You have to look inside the ZIP files...

 

On 10/12/2024 at 7:28 PM, LucShep said:

My question to @Art-J and @dlder now is: Are you sure you tried the latest version of CGTC (2.84) over stock Caucasus, not the older releases (before May of 2023) ? 

Yes, v2.84.1

But, I didn't try it ingame. Too much of a hassle to make the same screenshots from mid and low altitude and from the ground. I just go after the size/date for each picture (inside the ZIP)

So yeah, maybe GTC actually does look better, subjectively at least.

 

The biggest issue I have with both is: terrain.cfg is now encrypted. So... what does that mean for such mods?

On 10/12/2024 at 10:55 PM, Art-J said:

In either case, you're right - as seen below the difference nowadays is negligible in city areas.

Thanks! Could you please add which picture is what?^^

[Art-J]

3 hours ago, dlder said:

Thanks! Could you please add which picture is what?^^

Good question ;). I don't remember now, but I believe upper one is CGTC and lower one is Barthek. I might've added Taz's trees v6 medium to CGTC, but I'm not at my PC now to confirm

[LucShep]

6 hours ago, dlder said:

You have to look inside the ZIP files...

and I did......
 

6 hours ago, dlder said:

The biggest issue I have with both is: terrain.cfg is now encrypted. So... what does that mean for such mods?

 

Means nothing.
The included terrain.cfg.lua bypasses the encrypted one (at least for now), no issues there at this point.

Edited November 4, 2024 by LucShep

[ouky1991]

On 2/21/2024 at 1:29 PM, Barthek said:

 I've recently spent some time playing with the mountainous regions. Here are the results:

 

 

 

Hey, so was this new version you showed us in february abandoned?

[Archangel44]

I love this mod, been using it for a bit over a year now, revisions and all.

After this last update with the fog and all, with this mod installed, my mission loading screen hangs for a long time.

After removing a few mods, I disabled this weather mod and the mission loading screen stopped hanging up.

I put the other mods back but left this weather mod disabled and all was good. 
Is it just my rig?

Asrock x870 Pro RS

AMD 7600x

32 gig 6600 DDR5

4080 Super OC

Windows 11 pro with latest update.

 

 

Please advise.

Thank you

[YoYo]

On 12/8/2024 at 7:45 PM, Archangel44 said:

I love this mod, been using it for a bit over a year now, revisions and all.

After this last update with the fog and all, with this mod installed, my mission loading screen hangs for a long time.

After removing a few mods, I disabled this weather mod and the mission loading screen stopped hanging up.

I put the other mods back but left this weather mod disabled and all was good. 
Is it just my rig?

Asrock x870 Pro RS

AMD 7600x

32 gig 6600 DDR5

4080 Super OC

Windows 11 pro with latest update.

 

 

Please advise.

Thank you

Maybe something else? No any issue for me, I tried few times different scenarios till now with the fog.

[Archangel44]

Alright, good to know. Thank you.

I'll check around for other stuff.