How do you land?

[ebabil]

Are you using flaps and trim?

With hornet i use trim a lot in order to get good aoa.

Is there any difference between them ?

[MAXsenna]

Are you using flaps and trim?

 

With hornet i use trim a lot in order to get good aoa.

 

Is there any difference between them ?

No. The Viper has auto flaps. Check out Wag's video on YouTube.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Edited December 2, 2019 by MAXsenna

[Fri13]

I trim only the helicopters, others I fly all the time manually, unless I have autopilot enabled.

[ebabil]

Ok thanks. I always feel a bit fast when i land with viper. So i think i might have been doing something wrong.

[Lace]

190 approach, 140-160 over the fence (about 10-12deg AoA). Idle and flare. Full speed-brakes as I flare. Nose down at 100.

 

 

 

Not sure if they are book figures but they work well for me.

[Dee-Jay]

190 approach, 140-160 over the fence (about 10-12deg AoA). Idle and flare. Full speed-brakes as I flare. Nose down at 100.

 

Not sure if they are book figures but they work well for me.

 

Approach airspeed depends a lot on actual weight.

 

May I suggested FPM on top of brackets (= AOA 11°) or slightly below, and air-brakes if you wish, but no pressure hold on the AB open switch otherwise you will override the max landing extension angle with risks of scraping them on pavement (if one day it this is implemented).

 

Regards.

[Kid18120]

...otherwise you will override the max landing extension angle with risks of scraping them on pavement...

 

Isn't this protected by a WoW switch on the landing gear?

[Dee-Jay]

Isn't this protected by a WoW switch on the landing gear?

 

Nope, WOW switch has nothing to do with it actually.

 

Problem is not that much once a/c is three points on ground than at touchdown and/or during aerobraking phase. On ground with a 0° pitch attitude, no prob to fully extend the air-brakes ... but at about 13°-14° ... tail strike, nose & AB scrape are not far. but mostly , IRL, during two-point aerodynamic braking, the airbrakes (43 degrees or greater open) may contact arrestor cables.

 

When fully open prior lowering the landing gear, airbrake will automatically retract to 43° when the right main landing gear is locked down.

 

Use two-point aerodynamic braking until approximately 100 knots, then fly the nosewheel to runway. After the nosewheel is on the runway, you can open the airbrakes fully and maintain full aft stick for maximum three-point aerodynamic braking and wheel braking effectiveness.

 

;)

Edited December 2, 2019 by Dee-Jay

[Lace]

Nope, WOW switch has nothing to do with it actually.

 

Problem is not that much once a/c is three points on ground than at touchdown and/or during aerobraking phase. On ground with a 0° pitch attitude, no prob to fully extend the air-brakes ... but at about 13°-14° ... tail strike, nose & AB scrape are not far. but mostly , IRL, during two-point aerodynamic braking, the airbrakes (43 degrees or greater open) may contact arrestor cables.

 

When fully open prior lowering the landing gear, airbrake will automatically retract to 43° when the right main landing gear is locked down.

 

Use two-point aerodynamic braking until approximately 100 knots, then fly the nosewheel to runway. After the nosewheel is on the runway, you can open the airbrakes fully and maintain full aft stick for maximum three-point aerodynamic braking and wheel braking effectiveness.

 

;)

 

 

Good to know. Is there any way (other than looking at them) of knowing how much they are extended? Is it just a case of counting how long the open switch is held? AFAIK there is no angle feedback in the cockpit?

[Dee-Jay]

Good to know. Is there any way (other than looking at them) of knowing how much they are extended? Is it just a case of counting how long the open switch is held? AFAIK there is no angle feedback in the cockpit?

 

Correct. No angle feedbacks. Time to reach full open position is about 2s, from full open to closed position, it is about 3s.

[ebabil]

Approach airspeed depends a lot on actual weight.

 

May I suggested FPM on top of brackets (= AOA 11°) or slightly below, and air-brakes if you wish, but no pressure hold on the AB open switch otherwise you will override the max landing extension angle with risks of scraping them on pavement (if one day it this is implemented).

 

Regards.

 

Forgive my ignorance but what is "AB open switch"?

[Ramsay]

Forgive my ignorance but what is "AB open switch"?

 

IIRC, when "Air Brake Open" is held it overrides the "landing" limit for the max air brake extension.

[ebabil]

to get more aiır brake surface to get faster slowing option?

[smire666]

No, there isn' t any precise indicator. You can just look back over Your shoulder...

[Frederf]

Speed brake normally maintains no more than 43° with the landing gear down. The purpose is to avoid tail strike during touchdown and that the full 60° has a pronounced floating ground effect which may complicate touchdown.

 

During most speedbrake operation you don't need to know exactly how open they are. In normal flight it's like a brake pedal, add or subtract speed brake as needed by observing the effects on speed. For approach to landing it's enough to simply hold down SB switch long enough to ensure fully open. If gear is down or will be down then releasing switch it is known that SB are at their 43° position.

 

After landing with nose wheel on the ground then stick is held full back and SB switch held open (to go from 43 to 60°) for maximum drag. It's only necessary to hold the switch about a second to fully open the SB and have them stay there. But to be safe and simple it is easier to simply hold the SB switch open until speed is safely low. This covers cases where NLG WOW is lost (WOW switch broken, nose wheel lifts off) which would automatically retract SB to 43° without pilot knowledge.

[Eaglewings]

I am having a good read here.

Very useful and interesting stuff about the speed brake. I take a look at the external view during approach and wonder why the speed brake is not fully extended and now it all make sense.

 

The full stick pull to aft after nosewheel touch down is a discovery.

What are the three-point aerodynamic braking elements at work here?

 

Cheers.

[Frederf]

Tail down force increases main gear tire down force which makes wheel braking more effective. A higher normal (orthogonal) force allows a higher frictional force before slipping. Additionally and perhaps more importantly that negative tail lift is another source of drag. It's mentioned in the -1 for both normal and minimum run landing procedure.

 

As far as I know only the SB and stabs are the only aerodynamic surfaces under pilot control after touchdown. I have noticed that DCS's stabs "bounce" with full aft stick during 3-point rollout and I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think with all 3 LG WOW and wheel spin up full aft stick should achieve a steady constant stab angle. But I'm no FLCS expert.

[Dee-Jay]

Aerobraking has some appreciable efficiency only at 13° and more ... Same about elevons on full up position. Appreciated on icy conditions or wet/damp runways.

 

(However, I don't know if iT is implemented in DCS ... Or maybe not yet (?))

[DerekSpeare]

I do all of my ILS landings with brakes out, gear down and 10-12 AOA all the way in. No trim is needed and the plane just does what it's supposed to do.

[Eaglewings]

Tail down force increases main gear tire down force which makes wheel braking more effective. A higher normal (orthogonal) force allows a higher frictional force before slipping. Additionally and perhaps more importantly that negative tail lift is another source of drag. It's mentioned in the -1 for both normal and minimum run landing procedure.

 

As far as I know only the SB and stabs are the only aerodynamic surfaces under pilot control after touchdown. I have noticed that DCS's stabs "bounce" with full aft stick during 3-point rollout and I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think with all 3 LG WOW and wheel spin up full aft stick should achieve a steady constant stab angle. But I'm no FLCS expert.

Some very Interesting details here.

 

Thanks.

[Notso]

Tail down force increases main gear tire down force which makes wheel braking more effective. A higher normal (orthogonal) force allows a higher frictional force before slipping. Additionally and perhaps more importantly that negative tail lift is another source of drag. It's mentioned in the -1 for both normal and minimum run landing procedure.

 

As far as I know only the SB and stabs are the only aerodynamic surfaces under pilot control after touchdown. I have noticed that DCS's stabs "bounce" with full aft stick during 3-point rollout and I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think with all 3 LG WOW and wheel spin up full aft stick should achieve a steady constant stab angle. But I'm no FLCS expert.

 

Interesting..... I recall watching this video of a PACAF demo recently and noticed the stab bouncing a bit on rollout. Skip to 13:45 for short final and rollout. Unless he is relaxing the stick during the rollout and then pulling full-aft again, they do appear to move a fair amount on rollout.

 

 

Also here at 5:48, the stabs seem to be bouncing quite a bit during taxi:

 

Of course the last video is not full aft stick.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Notso