RWR tones in latest update

[Tyrant07]

Hey so I couldn't help but notice that the new RWR sounds are a 100% match for the ones I uploaded as a mod on the User files website back in October.

 

A little head nod for using my mod would have been nice I guess :lol:

 

Anyways, are ED still working on fully implementing tones for all the different radar's out there?

[VampireNZ]

[Strikeeagle345]

Where did you get the RWR sound files from for your mod?

[MAXsenna]

Where did you get the RWR sound files from for your mod?

He snuck across the border and recorded them!

 

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[Tyrant07]

Where did you get the RWR sound files from for your mod?

 

I got them from that which shall not be named. I basically chose sounds that stood out to me so I could easily recognize what each one meant.

[RaceFuel85]

This thread, basically.

 

 

[Strikeeagle345]

exactly.

[Tyrant07]

:megalol::megalol:

 

I appreciate the Princess Bride being put into this thread

[MAXsenna]

This is just mighty ironic!!!

 

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[Santi871]

yikes

[Dee-Jay]

Hi!

 

I got them from that which shall not be named. I basically chose sounds that stood out to me so I could easily recognize what each one meant.

 

If you are talking about what I think (?) ... I've made most of them. ;) ...

 

Hard to get something really realistic here once you know how ALR-56M re really working. Except the "A/A" and "G/A" camped tones, all others are not synthetic sounds. They are literally an audible version of the "radar waves". There is then no way to have some real since IRL, radar will produce a different music each time depending on many many parameters such as RF, PRF ... etc ...

To sum-up ... making specific tones in order to be able to identify a given radar signature "is not" something really realistic. But sometimes, simulations limitations requires some compromises.

 

But If you are talking about xxx ... I have nothing to do with it. :D

 

Cheers!

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dee-Jay

[Frederf]

I've always wondered if RWR (real) was using pre-made file audio or was a "radio microphone" hearing radiation in the raw. Yes, that would make a realistic simulation of this tone dynamically generated from the variables an involved task.

[Dee-Jay]

I've always wondered if RWR (real) was using pre-made file audio

 

Actually, both, "natural" then synthetic tones when clamped and when radar signal PRF is no longer in the audible range.

 

Out of scope IMO.

It would be a huge task ... to ... get something wrong anyway (unless some ppl feed the data with RL restricted and confidential parameters) ... well => overkill. However ... one can get close to ... ;)

[cabzi]

Hey so I couldn't help but notice that the new RWR sounds are a 100% match for the ones I uploaded as a mod on the User files website back in October.

 

A little head nod for using my mod would have been nice I guess :lol:

 

Anyways, are ED still working on fully implementing tones for all the different radar's out there?

 

Well, this is great news! Here is a list for ED to replace next:

- Caucasus terrain (just pick any up-to-date version from Mustang, Starway or Barthek)

- Desert terrain (from Mustang)

[JamesRothwell]

I actually prefered the placeholder rwr sounds.

[QuiGon]

Hi!

 

 

 

If you are talking about what I think (?) ... I've made most of them. ;) ...

 

Hard to get something really realistic here once you know how ALR-56M re really working. Except the "A/A" and "G/A" camped tones, all others are not synthetic sounds. They are literally an audible version of the "radar waves". There is then no way to have some real since IRL, radar will produce a different music each time depending on many many parameters such as RF, PRF ... etc ...

To sum-up ... making specific tones in order to be able to identify a given radar signature "is not" something really realistic. But sometimes, simulations limitations requires some compromises.

 

But If you are talking about xxx ... I have nothing to do with it. :D

 

Cheers!

Heatblur actually did that for the Viggen. They're generating PRFs for radars, based on their performance attributes within DCS and then generate a RWR sound based on that. You can listen to some specific examples here: http://viggentools.se/

In the past this website also listed the respective PRFs for the listed radars and even had a input field where you could just enter any PRF number and generate a Viggen radar sound. Not sure why it got removed from the website.

[Dee-Jay]

Heatblur actually did that for the Viggen. They're generating PRFs for radars, based on their performance attributes within DCS and then generate a RWR sound based on that. You can listen to some specific examples here: http://viggentools.se/

 

Nice ... ! :thumbup: But this is "not difficult" to make as they still are synthetic tones. (Grab Audacity or any sound generator => generates a given Hz tone for each radar modes, that's it!)

 

 

What I mean by PRF "music" is something like this

 

From

(I am not talking about the "7 bip" missile launch tone )

 

 

And a given radar can produce a lot of (completely) different "musics" ...

 

Except by sampling tracks, it would be hard to dynamically generate such things in a game unless by using "Microsoft Radar Simulator". ;) ...

 

In the past this website also listed the respective PRFs for the listed radars ... Not sure why it got removed from the website.

 

I have a little idea why it got removed from the website. ;)

Edited December 5, 2019 by Dee-Jay

[Dee-Jay]

Hi Sharko!

 

also Deejay would be able to give an info on that

 

ARL-56M is how described above.

 

My opinion on that: Out of scope.

 

And considering that posting any link or quote from RL manual is firmly and strictly forbidden (for good and comprehensive reasons), I do not imagine having real PRFs freq taken in account in the sim anyway (if even known!) ... I would rather stick on synthetic sounds or samples from audio tracks as I did trying to be as much accurate as possible without falling into sensible things.

 

Real PRF or not ... whats the different for the player. They won't be able to know the difference with RL anyway. IMO, no big deal here.

 

Especially when we know that a given radar antenna can use various set/ranges of PRF, RF, Pd ... depending on modes, distance of target, relative speed ... etc ... than a given radar is fitted with several emitting antennas each using difference signals ... that RWR efficiency is directly tied to libraries accuracy and so, depends on quality of lintels ... etc ... etc ...

 

I would rather hope for a non perfect/non magic RWR models with possible EID ambiguities, angular ambiguities ... etc ... making RWR not a magic tool giving a perfect RL picture anytime. IMO, this is what is important over having real "sounds". ("real" means nothing anyway ... it can just be consistent, depending on situations and considered systems).

 

Same about IFF. ... IFFs are far from being a perfect tool.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Cheers!

[Santi871]

ED is already working on a PRF audio library.

 

1 hard coded sound per threat/radar is enough, even though in the real world it would depend on a lot more variables, that part is way out of scope.

[QuiGon]

Nice ... ! :thumbup: But this is "not difficult" to make as they still are synthetic tones. (Grab Audacity or any sound generator => generates a given Hz tone for each radar modes, that's it!)

Well, aren't the real sounds synthetic tones as well, synthesized by the radio frequency?

 

ED is already working on a PRF audio library.

 

1 hard coded sound per threat/radar is enough, even though in the real world it would depend on a lot more variables, that part is way out of scope.

I would prefer 2 hard coded sounds, one for radar in search mode and one for the radar in tracking mode (well, that only applies to radars that are capable of tracking of course). That's what Heatblur has done for the Viggen.

[Dee-Jay]

Well, aren't the real sounds synthetic tones as well, synthesized by the radio frequency?

 

Search for Electronic Warfare Fundamentals. There are more than I can explain. ;) ...

 

I would prefer 2 hard coded sounds, one for radar in search mode and one for the radar in tracking mode

 

Well ... if you want to make it roughly okay, would need three: "Search" "Acquisition" "Tracking" ... maybe "Guiding" also for some system. (Note also that some systems are out RWR band range , invisible so to say. ... Or ... ambiguous with other radars.)

Edited December 5, 2019 by Dee-Jay

[Beamscanner]

radio frequency does not influence the RWR tones. Only PRF, PRF modulation, Scan and illumination time do.

 

Well, aren't the real sounds synthetic tones as well, synthesized by the radio frequency?

 

Technically PRF audio can be generated from Pulse Descriptor words (PDWs) to generate a synthetic tone that matches the detected PRF/scan. Modern digital RWRs may choose this route so as to eliminate the requirement of an AM receiver for the PRF audio.

 

Heatblur actually did that for the Viggen.

 

Unfortunately their tones are sinusoidal and dont have the PRF complexity, mainlobe/sidelobe of a high fidelity tone. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4046507&postcount=14

 

I've been working on authentic PRF tones for awhile now.

LPRF scanned radar Example: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4042722&postcount=7

 

I agree that real parameters are not needed, nor available (most of the time). However, one can still make the sounds more authentic by including PRF modulation types (MPRF dwells, LPRF staggers, etc) with proper scans, beam width illumination time, and sidelobes.

[Dee-Jay]

Technically PRF audio can be generated from Pulse Descriptor words (PDWs) to generate a synthetic tone that matches the detected PRF/scan. Modern digital RWRs may choose this route so as to eliminate the requirement of an AM receiver for the PRF audio.

 

I would dream about being able to generate some of those using Audacity or any other software! ...

[max22]

Basically you should be flattered that ED merged your product into production, and if by any chance ED want to reward you (hear that ED ?!) they will know how to..

[Tumbler-]

Basically you should be flattered that ED merged your product into production, and if by any chance ED want to reward you (hear that ED ?!) they will know how to..

 

His products? :megalol: