MADDOG!

[159th_Viper]

How about a HUD tape with the 120 DLZ on it?

 

I'd like to see that, if you please :)

[GGTharos]

I believe I have long said the 120 is porked. According to that tape, no less. And yes, it gives you all that info; speeds, altitudes, range.

[Kuky]

Well target aspect is more important to see... if that is not shown/known it's still debatable how effective a missile is... testing is always done in controlled conditions with predetermined target aspect... and what's never possible to replicate is unpredicted human behaviour.

[504Goon]

There's aspect too in that tape.

[GGTharos]

Yeah. Thanks for assuming that I haven't done my homework ;)

 

Well target aspect is more important to see... if that is not shown/known it's still debatable how effective a missile is... testing is always done in controlled conditions with predetermined target aspect... and what's never possible to replicate is unpredicted human behaviour.

[Kuky]

Actually I didn't assume that at all :D ... I am just pointing out that even if on that HUD the AIM-120 finds its target... it's still just 1 example and at the same time it still doesn't mean the AIM-120 is not good or is good. I don't have personal experience in these manners so I can't talk what's right or wrong but maybe you do, and again maybe borchi can so too... get my point?

 

Now show up the HUD tape and lets start duscussion on it...

[GGTharos]

No, I think your point isn't particularly valid, Kuky, but I will leave it at that, so peace out :D

[SoaringEagle74]

I don't have much experience in A2A combat but from reading the manual there are a large number of variables to consider before judging missile effectiveness...

 

1)Target aspect ratio:Is target approaching head on or speeding ahead of you? A missile fired at a low aspect target needs to chase down the target therefore maximum launch range is greatly reduced. At the other extreme in which target is 'head on' the combined closure rate is very high and therefore you can launch much earlier.

 

2)Speed and altitude of launching platform: If the launching plane is firing missiles from high altitude and at a high speed then the maximum launch range is greatly increased!

 

3)Size of radar and/or IR target signature: The greater the signature the

greater the chance of missile intercepting target. Eventhough most IR missiles are all aspect you are still better off launching from bogey six due to engine heat. The engines are much hotter and provide a much better thermal contrast for the IR seeker then the rest of plane does. As far as radar signature the larger the target the sooner your radar will paint it.

Setting up your antenna azimuth, altitude and range correctly in relation to the target/s is extremely important as well as choosing the right frequency to use depending on the targets expected aspect ratio.

 

4)It is generally accepted that missiles launched from Rtr(or near this range) have a much better chance of intercepting than missiles launched from Rmax.

 

As far as maddogging, or launching multiple missiles especially from long range is probably stupid and a waste of ordinance. Maybe launching one or two missiles at multiple targets early on can assist in putting the enemy into a defensive position but shooting everything at once is like putting all your eggs in one basket...if any fighters escape(and probably most will) what will you fight with in the ensueing dogfight?

 

Quite frankly, I think some people don't :book: enough!

[borchi_2b]

@GGtharos:

 

ok, first sorry for talking d to you about your status of beeing an ed tester.

 

bur one little thing, the bird my cousin flew till feb tis year was the 86-0159 which oe out of 3 f-15c of the 493rd thats has a official mig kill over serbia.

his rank is LtCol, maybe Col now, have not talked to him for a few month , cause he moved, and he is really busy but believe me after 23 years of flying and also instructing and testflying he knows what he talks about

 

you might call me a liar, but that does not interest me cause i know that i am ot what you accuse me to be

ahh by the way, i will not write his name as prove, cause that is something the militry does not want, cause they want to save thier personal, what i can understand

and in addition it will not make any diffrence to this topic

 

@kuky: yes get your point cause it is based on real facts

 

ad it was mentioed i tis threat, that pilots might loose thier job whe they just waste missiles. thats true for every field of military, cause a wast of resources makes troops ineffective. ineffectivenes causes lifes and you have to write a report for each weapon deployment esspecally whe the single weapon cost more than a house

most people here, thats wha it seems to me, like to forget the fact that in the airforce, the pilots are controlled about 99% and have no freedom like we do have it in lockon.

whe you do ot behave the way you are trained or advised by air control you are grounded for many days or eve loose the job.

but well, it is true tha in real life o 2 ship would for example attack a 6ship cause pilots know tht it is impossible to engage all the planes with success in the firs time, so they would have to risk more the thier plane, they would have to risk thier lifes ad that is something nobody likes.

 

ok lets sum it up, real life is harder then a sim, although real life has more techical advantages

[tflash]

There are two important things you should know about Lockon:

 

- the Amraam is porked

- I forgot the other one

 

Anyway, indeed if you wait for Rtr in single player, you have a sure kill;

if you wait for Rtr online, you're dead. Rtr comes VERY late, usually at about 7nm at medium to low level.

 

Between RTr and Rmax, the Amraam is way to susceptible for chaff. The R-77 does not have this problem in-game, since it flies faster and so the FOV cone surrounding the target becomes smaller more quickly, which means chaff falls out of the FOV sooner.

[GGTharos]

Actually the real 120A Rtr is about 8nm medium-low. LO 120's Rtr is shorter than that.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The R-77 does not have this problem in-game, since it flies faster ...

…and has more range and is more maneuverable in real life. It is just better missile.

[504Goon]

Veljko, what is the actual range of the R-77? Let's say at about 3000m altitude?

[Frostie]

Ive recently compared the AMRAAM in LO with F4, and while the C5 in F4 is faster, the other noticable difference with a MadDog shot is that in LO the 120 keeps altitude for over a minute where as in Falcon the 120 starts losing altitude after only 25 seconds and ends up 10000feet below its initial launch after 50 seconds compared to LO's 120 staying at the launch altitude even after 1 minute of flight, this in my opinion coupled with the exaggerated scan zone makes the maddog shots way too effective.

[GGTharos]

... which is exactly why the RuAF wants to replace it ASAP. It's just not fair using such a superior missile. :D

 

…and has more range and is more maneuverable in real life. It is just better missile.

[GGTharos]

It doesn't mean that falcon has it quite right either though ... there's a little more to maddogging than just a dumb launch - there's a lot more to missile autopilots than just going straight ahead ... think of a gun tracking solution ... except your projectile has the ability to pull g's ;)

 

Ive recently compared the AMRAAM in LO with F4, and while the C5 in F4 is faster, the other noticable difference with a MadDog shot is that in LO the 120 keeps altitude for over a minute where as in Falcon the 120 starts losing altitude after only 25 seconds and ends up 10000feet below its initial launch after 50 seconds compared to LO's 120 staying at the launch altitude even after 1 minute of flight, this in my opinion coupled with the exaggerated scan zone makes the maddog shots way too effective.

[S77th-konkussion]

…and has more range and is more maneuverable in real life. It is just better missile.

 

 

... in MY little world, anyway.

[D-Scythe]

…and has more range and is more maneuverable in real life. It is just better missile.

 

 

This is an intelligent and constructive post. See, I can post things that blatantly contradict reality as well. You are objective. Your input is taken seriously. You have no agenda at all.

 

And so on, ad naseum.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

This is an intelligent and constructive post. See, I can post things that blatantly contradict reality as well. You are objective. Your input is taken seriously. You have no agenda at all.

 

Lol :lol:

 

When I can ripple 6 AMRAAMS within the targets NEZ (5-8nm) and not hit a single goddamn thing I dont need anyone here to tell me that the AMRAAM is porked. :joystick:

[Pilotasso]

…and has more range and is more maneuverable in real life. It is just better missile.

 

Your last few posts were just to try provoke and have fun at our expense without any usefull debate. I dont know how you became to be so priveleged in order to have come about this long puting up your comments unchecked. I have seen people abandon these boards for less than that. But its like that Iraqi minister of information that was so off from reality people actualy liked him in a cynical way.

Congrats for being OUR minister of information haj. Its funny for us, but kinda sad for who wears those shoes.

[Kuky]

Lol :lol:

 

When I can ripple 6 AMRAAMS within the targets NEZ (5-8nm) and not hit a single goddamn thing I dont need anyone here to tell me that the AMRAAM is porked. :joystick:

 

Well, if you fire all6 missiles at the same time, they are pretty much effective as 1 of them as all are fired in same aspect and if the targeted aircraft (or should I say the pilot) knows what's he's doing and knows how to evade 1 such shot... he'll most likely evade all 6... firing all 6 missiles right off one after another is just pain dumn I think... if the aspect of engagement is good 1 missile should hit... if not you may fire 20 of them and they will all miss :music_whistling:

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Well, if you fire all6 missiles at the same time, they are pretty much effective as 1 of them as all are fired in same aspect and if the targeted aircraft (or should I say the pilot) knows what's he's doing and knows how to evade 1 such shot... he'll most likely evade all 6... firing all 6 missiles right off one after another is just pain dumn I think... if the aspect of engagement is good 1 missile should hit... if not you may fire 20 of them and they will all miss :music_whistling:

 

Kuky I said ripple not spam :thumbup:, I ripple AMRAAMS whilst beaming like RL tactics a RL Eagle pilot will ripple AMRAAMS, I've already been shown how to beat an AMRAAM, on the RWR wait for the last light then pull a hard g turn and guess what 90% of the time it works.

 

In all honesty I probably do fire too many AMRAAMS because I have zero confidence in them.

 

Here's my normal rate of fire.

 

All fired in TWS mode.

 

1st AMRAAM 12-14nm to target

2nd AMRAAM 10 nm to target

3rd AMRAAM 8nm to target

4th AMRAAM 7nm to target

 

And still I miss lol, the AMRAAM is porked.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Pilotasso, GG and everyone else dont bother replying to Haj everyone knows he's just here to cause trouble, He's hung up about the western world, it's probably something to do with how Serbia got its arse kicked by NATO for commiting genocide.

[Groove]

Dont force the mods to close this interesting thread by adding politcial debates / flamebaits into it.

[Pilotasso]

THx eyes, but you probably havent been here when several other flamewars hapened about that conflict. There are many people here from that part of the globe, some are silent others dont as much, because there are still sore wonds bound to be open again, and I think the point has been made along time ago. You are forgiven but lets remind of this matter only to ourselves. The time to speak openly about it without anyone getting realy upset is still much into the future.