vtol landing wobble

[chris_lancaster]

Hi,

 

I am just after some tip, other than to keep practising because I am still doing that I swear, on how to reduce that side to side wobble you seem to get at very low speed when coming in for a vertical landing.

 

The biggest factor I think Is small small inputs and to resist the urge to overcorrect, and trim it out. However it does still do it occasionally and sometimes she does start rocking from side to side prior to being put down. I'm after some tips if anyone has any on how to reduce this or best to combat against it?

 

I have a thrustmaster t16000 and I have introduced a small deadzone (8) on both axis', which has helped in general with flying the jet. I have heard about introducing or increasing the joystick curve, but I know nothing about this, or what is considered a 'normal' curve. I will experiment with it, as I have left it linear by default.

 

tia guys

 

Gryphon.

[Deano87]

You NEEED a curve with the T16000, I'd be running something like 20 or even 30 depending on how it feels. Deadzone should be big enough so that any "wobble" in a centre of the stick doesn't get registered as a control input.

 

IMHO I find the AV8B pretty stable in the hover when coming in for landing. 83 on the nozzle, and I try to not let the descent rate get higher then 400fpm

[chris_lancaster]

You NEEED a curve with the T16000, I'd be running something like 20 or even 30 depending on how it feels. Deadzone should be big enough so that any "wobble" in a centre of the stick doesn't get registered as a control input.

 

IMHO I find the AV8B pretty stable in the hover when coming in for landing. 83 on the nozzle, and I try to not let the descent rate get higher then 400fpm

 

Thanks for the pointer Deano, you know what I mean about the rocking from side to side though when your super slow before bringing it down? I have tried 22 on the X and Y axis curve, so i'm hoping this will help. Ill also try to watch my decent rate.

[Harlikwin]

Curves as people have mentioned. And use you pedals.

[Hawkeye_UK]

Just to check you are looking at the wind indicator and or ensuring your not landing into a crosswind?

 

Make sure the witch's hat is kept on the horizon also tends to stop this as well as not over correcting pilot induced yaw/roll.

[LastRifleRound]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that helped me a lot is to use AFC to set trim when needed. It isn't cheating, the NATOPS recommends it as well. Bind AFC to a button, get the aircraft on heading, engage AFC. Disengage whenever you like and your aircraft is trimmed for that attitude. It can help greatly in lowering pilot workload. You can even adjust with the hat switch while in AFC. You can bring the jet right alongside the LZ without ever leaving it if you manage your throttle right. You still want to be able to manage the rockiness manually though as it's a good skill to have, so I'd get a handle on that first as others have suggested.

[Revs]

just check mine and I got no dead zone and no curves. you use dead zone when you got wobbly stick, also curves messes up with muscle memory since it is not linear, as different aspect of the flight needs different amount of inputs.

 

when you're about to hover look outside/horizon more then VV and witch hut

Edited March 5, 2020 by Revs

[Mars Exulte]

The slower you go, the more like a helicopter it behaves. I believe all Harrier pilots were helo pilots first, based on some reading (others would know better).

 

That means every movement needs to have an equal counter movement before quickly returning to neutral. For any wobbling, use rudder not aileron. And with a short stick, curves in the 20-30 range would be advisable along with a light touch.

 

Take a look in a axis tester that shows numerical values. Note that even if the stick doesn't physically move just applying pressure tends to shift the values. It needs THAT kind of light touch, if you ''feel'' the move you're probably overcorrecting.

 

Of course this requires you be stable in the first place. Just like with AAR take your time and get stable FIRST. I watched a F-35 the other day he was coming in to land, hover hover hover, but he was a bit unstable rocking in the wind maybe. He waited until it settled down then brought it on down. Do the same! One good stable approach beats the hell out of a dozen crappy ones.

[Nightmare22]

I love the T16000 stick but it does degrade overtime, deadzone is the answer as it physically has a sensitive light friction zone before the stick stiffens to harder friction, sometimes movement in this light zone is amplified once you get into the harder friction so I have curves at 25 and a 10 deadzone and dont have any issues.

 

I had an earlier generic Thrustmaster hotas stick and in the hover my Harrier was all over the place, rocking left to right with little I could do to stabilise it - bought a new one (T16000) and it's solid in the Hover now landing at a nice 0 knots, wings level.

[Eldur]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that helped me a lot is to use AFC to set trim when needed. It isn't cheating, the NATOPS recommends it as well. Bind AFC to a button, get the aircraft on heading, engage AFC. Disengage whenever you like and your aircraft is trimmed for that attitude. It can help greatly in lowering pilot workload. You can even adjust with the hat switch while in AFC. You can bring the jet right alongside the LZ without ever leaving it if you manage your throttle right. You still want to be able to manage the rockiness manually though as it's a good skill to have, so I'd get a handle on that first as others have suggested.

 

Should even be possible to fly the thing jetborne with AFC, making things a lot easier. The NATOPS has some pages that describe exactly how the AFC works under different conditions, including jetborne flight. Its implementation in DCS however is very far from that...

[Cornelius]

Should even be possible to fly the thing jetborne with AFC, making things a lot easier. The NATOPS has some pages that describe exactly how the AFC works under different conditions, including jetborne flight. Its implementation in DCS however is very far from that...

 

What is jetborne? :huh:

[Marsvinet]

What is jetborne? :huh:

 

 

Receiving lift only from the nozzles and not from the wings. Basically the stages of hover and slow movements with nozzles down. Compared to semi-jetborne where the wings start to provide a little lift, but the nozzles still do the major work. Then you end up in wingborne flight as speed increases.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Marsvinet
Spelling ez herd

[Extranajero]

The slower you go, the more like a helicopter it behaves. I believe all Harrier pilots were helo pilots first, based on some reading (others would know better).

 

 

RAF pilots were sent on a short helicopter course before starting Harrier conversion. I haven't read of any who thought the helicopter course was very relevant, a lot say it was interesting but not a great deal of use.

 

Many new pilots who went onto the Harrier force as their first jet after training found adapting to it easier than pilots who were coming from previous fast jet experience. Make of that what you will :)

 

------------------------------------

 

I've found that joystick curves are really dependant on which stick you have and you'll need to experiment. I've flown the Harrier with three different sticks now and each one of them needed different settings.

I'm using a Warthog with a Hornet grip at the moment for the Harrier and I find the settings in Chucks Guide are pretty much spot on.

 

But it's all about what works for you. Flying the Harrier well in jet borne flight is tricky at first, which is what makes it fun for me personally.

[Captain Orso]

In a good documentary they stated that at some point they thought that they could put rookie pilots into Harrier training; that the rookies would simply learn the Harrier along with the rest.

 

After a number of fatal crashes, they realized that only seasoned pilots had the instincts and know-how to deal with the quirks of the Harrier. Since then only experience pilots are selected to pilot Harriers.

[Cornelius]

thx @Marsvinet