What interest you most, A-A or A-G missions?

[RvETito]

Looking back into the recent history the main employment of modern aircraft wordlwide is against poorly armed partisans. Fighters are close to jobless, and if we look it that way A2A is definately boring. IMO, it would be a miracle if an F-22 pilot ever sees a real air-combat while his ground pounding fellas would be kicking a$$. The time of big aerial battles is long gone...

[Pilotasso]

That has been only true in the sense that those poorly armed nations have been repeatedly pounded over the decades (the "usual culprits"). There are plenty other countries out there in full arms race.

 

Besides SIM's are moslty set in the past or set in the near future and highly fantasious anyway. You can use the imagination to pick any country that has a decent arsenal and start a not so boring campaign.

[RvETito]

Absolutely, and that's what we do in LO ;) Take the last RF for instance- 70+ people in one mission- a total war!

 

I was refering RL though.

[RedTiger]

Looking back into the recent history the main employment of modern aircraft wordlwide is against poorly armed partisans. Fighters are close to jobless, and if we look it that way A2A is definately boring. IMO, it would be a miracle if an F-22 pilot ever sees a real air-combat while his ground pounding fellas would be kicking a$$. The time of big aerial battles is long gone...

 

What you said is true but...

 

Most countries still put a lot of emphasis on A/A, both in procuring planes and developing new ones. USA, Russia, and India come to mind right off the bat. I'm sure there are others.

 

If A/A wasn't important, why develope the Raptor? Why have the Su-30MKI, which may be multirole, but also happens to be developed from Russia's arguably best air to air platform?

 

If A/A was dead, then all you would see is Vipers, Hogs, Fulcrums, and Frogs from the big developed and developing powers in the world. But you don't, you still see them put great emphasis on air to air. The place where you find people arguing for less A/A is when you play flight sims, only then do you come across those who want that type of thing. :smartass: Does anyone REALLY want an F-18 for air to air? Nope, they just want it for carrier ops and A/G. Try to suggest an F-15C study sim and you'll be met with screams of people saying it should be the E. They're willing to pass up a study sim of THE definitive air to air platform in favor of its fat, hobbled younger brother who has a bunch of A/G stuff grafted on to him. This is INSANITY I tell you!

 

As for A/G not being boring...ok...

 

Dropping CBUs at 25k on armored columns driving in nice neat rows is way, way, more interesting than A/A, right? Pushing a button and flattening a building with a JDAM from miles away takes way more thought than an A/A battle! :lol:

 

This is what A/G in the modern world amounts too, really. Poorly armed partisans don't exactly have tank divisions either. Even if they did, you wouldn't be strafing them WWII style.

[RvETito]

I never said that A2A is dead. It always precedes the A2G both in sims and RL. What I meant is that IRL it's pretty 'boring' right now.

 

As for the A2G- I do like using my Su-25 in LO exactly in WWII style :D

[Kuky]

*looks at the poll results*

 

I'm still not getting the appeal that A/G has to so many people...:music_whistling:

 

You're either 30 or 40k up in the air dropping bombs on targets you can only see on radar that can't dodge those bombs (if you are smart, that is, and your plane has this capability), or you're shooting at little vehicles that drive in a straight line. Yes, I know that they shoot back and yeah, they can be deadly.

 

I'm still not seeing the appeal here, however...does everyone like shooting fish in a barrel? Scared of a little ACM? Maybe they just like to watch things blow up. :P

 

You can argue that there's no use to say which one is better than the other, but unless you have AI that is far more skillful than what we have now or have each and every vehicle crewed by real players along with realistic armor penetration modeling, there's no contest IMO. ;)

 

Last RedFlag showed that doing A2G is very lethal for the pilot and not as easy as you or many others would think... if you want real challenge then you should be doing A2G in environment where all is possible (like in real world) and you'd get smacked by some AAA or IR SAM/Manpad almost every time. Flying high can be done in strike aircraft as well but even that is doable only if there are no radar SAM sites around... with good air defences it's very hard... not mentioning fighters trying to shoot you down as well :music_whistling:

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

I find it hard to beleive so many people are into A2G??, No offense but the AI in LO isnt exactly intelligent, I much prefer to fight a human in A2A.

[mvsgas]

As of right now we (A2G guys) seem to be winning, I guess we will see.

[rogue_blade]

What you said is true but...

 

Most countries still put a lot of emphasis on A/A, both in procuring planes and developing new ones. USA, Russia, and India come to mind right off the bat. I'm sure there are others.

 

If A/A wasn't important, why develope the Raptor? Why have the Su-30MKI, which may be multirole, but also happens to be developed from Russia's arguably best air to air platform?

 

 

 

If A/A was dead, then all you would see is Vipers, Hogs, Fulcrums, and Frogs from the big developed and developing powers in the world. But you don't, you still see them put great emphasis on air to air. The place where you find people arguing for less A/A is when you play flight sims, only then do you come across those who want that type of thing. :smartass: Does anyone REALLY want an F-18 for air to air? Nope, they just want it for carrier ops and A/G. Try to suggest an F-15C study sim and you'll be met with screams of people saying it should be the E. They're willing to pass up a study sim of THE definitive air to air platform in favor of its fat, hobbled younger brother who has a bunch of A/G stuff grafted on to him. This is INSANITY I tell you!

 

As for A/G not being boring...ok...

 

Dropping CBUs at 25k on armored columns driving in nice neat rows is way, way, more interesting than A/A, right? Pushing a button and flattening a building with a JDAM from miles away takes way more thought than an A/A battle! :lol:

 

This is what A/G in the modern world amounts too, really. Poorly armed partisans don't exactly have tank divisions either. Even if they did, you wouldn't be strafing them WWII style.

 

rep inbound :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[RedTiger]

Last RedFlag showed that doing A2G is very lethal for the pilot and not as easy as you or many others would think... if you want real challenge then you should be doing A2G in environment where all is possible (like in real world) and you'd get smacked by some AAA or IR SAM/Manpad almost every time. Flying high can be done in strike aircraft as well but even that is doable only if there are no radar SAM sites around... with good air defences it's very hard... not mentioning fighters trying to shoot you down as well :music_whistling:

 

Please see my previous post in this thread:

 

I wanted to add that I'd rather have A/A in an environment that also has realistic A/G going on too. This is the reason why I fly offline. I like having things like campaigns and missions that have surface to air threats even if I'm flying A/A missions. Hitting the deck to avoid an A/A missile on hyperlobby is one thing, doing it in a world full of SAMs, AAA, and every guy with an AK-47 shooting at you is another.

;)

 

I never said that A/G was EASY. Its just not as exciting TO ME (my opinion) as A/A if you're doing it the right way. I'm not equating F4AF with real life, but the environment you've described, I've experienced. I've flown missions where I've had to take my own HARMs along with my CBUs and GBUs because SAMs are unavoidable (which is unrealistic, changing your loadout, I think). SA-6 and above deserve respect. Once you start getting into SA-10s, then it doesn't matter how high you fly, you WILL be shot at. I've been cocky and loitered too long over the FLOT on CAS and been nailed my MANPADs because I'm flying too low trying to visually ID stuff that is too close for my radar and FLIR to see. As for fighters, I once had the displeasure actually watching a 4-ship of MiG-29s take off from their base as I was looking for targets over the FLOT. Needless to say I had to drop my stores, fire off my slammers in defense and abort.

 

Keep in mind that most of the time I'm trying to fly sims realistically in terms of how long I stay in the bad guy's turf. Some people in F4 (I'm guilty of this too sometimes) try to line up these neat little bombing runs with MARK points so they can get 30-40 kills with CBUs, or even going out of their way to target HART sights so they can rack up 100s of kills. This is a limitation of the sim, that you can get such unrealistic kill figures. However, you can play realistically, which I try to do in both F4 and Lockon. I shoot my air to ground missiles at as many targets as I can, then I line up a pass for CBUs on as good of a grouping of targets as I can find. After this, I call for my flight to rejoin and then we get the hell out of dodge. One kill per missile or bomb used is good enough for me, still counts as a success, and gets everyone home alive.

 

When you fly carefully like this, I've found that A/G isn't nearly engaging as A/A. The targets may be well defended in some cases, but they can't really avoid your ordinance and the AI doesn't put up a good enough fight. If all hell breaks loose, you can just fly away and go home. Fighters, on the other hand, can pursue you and kill you before you make it home. You actually have an escape window that can close and force you to fight. Just because you abort doesn't mean the other guy does!

[Eagle Driver]

I prefer A/A if it's done right. In LO, it ain't done right, primarily due to the missiles, you can't get one to hit. I mean, I've had people online outmaneuver a Sidewinder fired at the perfect range (it gets there right about the time the rocket goes out) and all they did for evasion was to pull G. That's it, they pulled more G than the missile, no countermeasures, just G. Although I will say this, when it IS done right, it can get very scary, I won't even TRY to take on a Flanker in F4:RV unless I'm in a Raptor or some similar beast. Anyway, the point is that A/A is only fun with good opponents and good missiles, while ground attack has less potential (for me) but can also be quite nice (I must admit though, I'm sick of the Hawg, it is TOO SLOW).

[Roge]

AG all the way!! Me and my bro, flying low down rivers and city streets, trees on either side, popping up to pump rounds into armour, heaven!

[CAT_101st]

AG all the way!! Me and my bro, flying low down rivers and city streets, trees on either side, popping up to pump rounds into armour, heaven!

 

I'm with you Roge. Only I dont have anyone to fly with.

[Kuky]

I'm with you Roge. Only I dont have anyone to fly with.

 

HyperLobby?

[joey45]

I'm with you Roge. Only I dont have anyone to fly with.

 

Join a Sqn.....

[CAT_101st]

currintly i am in the 31st MEU in ArmA flying the cobra. I stoped the flight simes 4 years ago. DCS BS will bring me back to the Flight sim world. I will need a squadron then.

[Geier]

Only A2A online;)

[Roge]

hehehe personally Ive no idea where to look for a squadron, so I started this thread a while back

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=27471

 

would be all kinds of splendid to find a bunch of pilots in the same boat learning the sim and enjoying flying some 'easy' missions

[TheMoose]

79/33 for air to ground. Wicked :D where are all the Air to Air? They must be hidding lol, j/k :doh:

[X-man]

79/33 for air to ground. Wicked :D where are all the Air to Air? They must be hidding lol, j/k :doh:

In the Lockon forums maybe?? since DCS will not focus on A-A in the coming years anyway, why bother? Rember this is pretty much a A-G forum until ED anounces a A-A platform....

[Frostie]

Looking back into the recent history the main employment of modern aircraft wordlwide is against poorly armed partisans. Fighters are close to jobless, and if we look it that way A2A is definately boring. IMO, it would be a miracle if an F-22 pilot ever sees a real air-combat while his ground pounding fellas would be kicking a$$. The time of big aerial battles is long gone...

Most countries still put a lot of emphasis on A/A, both in procuring planes and developing new ones. USA, Russia, and India come to mind right off the bat. I'm sure there are others.

If A/A wasn't important, why develope the Raptor? Why have the Su-30MKI, which may be multirole, but also happens to be developed from Russia's arguably best air to air platform?

 

You need to realise how much A2A the Eagle has been involved in for the US during its long life and then you should understand his point,that real life A2A is dull.:D

[RedTiger]

You need to realise how much A2A the Eagle has been involved in for the US during its long life and then you should understand his point,that real life A2A is dull.:D

 

....and it would take an entire corps worth of destroyed tanks and IFVs to equal the pure excitement I have everytime I think of the 100+/0 A/A score the Eagle has! :P :D

[Frostie]

....and it would take an entire corps worth of destroyed tanks and IFVs to equal the pure excitement I have everytime I think of the 100+/0 A/A score the Eagle has! :P :D

Unfortunately for them its not the US pilots getting the kills.

Maybe they could sell the Raptor to Israel.

[rattler]

What interests me most

 

That LOFC gets the mods it was promised FIRST!!!!!:mad:

[RedTiger]

Unfortunately for them its not the US pilots getting the kills.

Maybe they could sell the Raptor to Israel.

 

It doesn't make any difference to me who made those kills. Have the USAF F-15s and IDF F-15s swap time and place and the results would probably be similar. Either that or start a war with Mexico and Canada. :lol:

 

Over the years Israel has had a very healthy and realistic appreciation of A/A combat in times where the US has not -- because they've had to. For that, I respect them. Do not read any politics into that please, for none were intended! :)