Air-to-Ground Radar modes

[Knock-Knock]

I hope we will get more resolution than displayed in that single old screenshot, cause Id assume that the 73 is more capable than the APG 63 in A/G, and judging by these images it had quite good resolution, at least when right on top and best case scenario, but still. Jump to 9m 19sec:

 

[QuiGon]

I hope we will get more resolution than displayed in that single old screenshot, cause Id assume that the 73 is more capable than the APG 63 in A/G, and judging by these images it had quite good resolution, at least when right on top and best case scenario, but still. Jump to 9m 19sec:

 

*video*

Interesting video, thanks! :thumbup:

[Fri13]

Yes but not as badly as IR/optical wavelengths.

 

While the optical can be easily made unusable, IR is sometimes in better condition.

 

But the X-band radars are almost completely capable to penetrate the clouds and such.

The weather IIRC needs to be thunderstorm kind where the X-band radar becomes problematic.

But more problematic is then the electricity and other phenomenons, like snow, icy rain etc.

 

And then of course what DCS doesn't simulate, Electronic Warfare where you simply can't use any emissions when you are going to strike, because you will reveal your position to the target. So datalinks, radios etc are disabled. A-G radar can be detected that you are scanning the area, and it is known that you need to be at given range and altitude so expectation is for strike. So you just trigger Anti-Air units in area.

 

The only real sensor that you can use in strikes etc is the optical one, and you can't even use laser to designate targets that has laser detection systems like MBT's, SAM's etc. And they will find the direction and take actions against you, like release the laser counter measurements so your laser guided bomb and rocket goes dumb.

 

None of these things are modeled in DCS, why it is like shooting a fish in a barrel when it comes to combat.

[jojo]

While the optical can be easily made unusable, IR is sometimes in better condition.

 

But the X-band radars are almost completely capable to penetrate the clouds and such.

The weather IIRC needs to be thunderstorm kind where the X-band radar becomes problematic.

But more problematic is then the electricity and other phenomenons, like snow, icy rain etc.

 

And then of course what DCS doesn't simulate, Electronic Warfare where you simply can't use any emissions when you are going to strike, because you will reveal your position to the target. So datalinks, radios etc are disabled. A-G radar can be detected that you are scanning the area, and it is known that you need to be at given range and altitude so expectation is for strike. So you just trigger Anti-Air units in area.

 

The only real sensor that you can use in strikes etc is the optical one, and you can't even use laser to designate targets that has laser detection systems like MBT's, SAM's etc. And they will find the direction and take actions against you, like release the laser counter measurements so your laser guided bomb and rocket goes dumb.

 

None of these things are modeled in DCS, why it is like shooting a fish in a barrel when it comes to combat.

 

DCS isn't just about today with the latest toys.

 

Warning SAM's isn't such a problem with SEAD support.

Radar targeting was used by F-15E during Desert Storm at least, who knows since then ?

Please show me a MBT disrupting laser guided weapons...

So far it doesn't seem widely fielded.

[Notso]

Radar targeting was used by F-15E during Desert Storm at least, who knows since then ?

 

Since always.

[Revelation]

Roger, that's what I asked before but nobody said anything :)

 

Actually we did, several of us, you just ignored our comments.

[hein22]

Actually we did, several of us, you just ignored our comments.

 

My apologies then.

Edited April 15, 2020 by hein22
grammar

[Schmidtfire]

AG radar: Real Beam Ground Map (MAP)

 

Someone has more info on this? Does it allow for targeting ships with Harpoon?

[tifafan]

AG radar: Real Beam Ground Map (MAP)

 

Someone has more info on this? Does it allow for targeting ships with Harpoon?

Real Beam Ground Map (MAP) mode displays terrain and raw ground and fixed target returns as seen by the Radar. "Raw" returns are those which are not significantly processed by the radar prior to display. By contrast, "synthetic" contacts such as those used in other Radar modes, are contacts which are manipulated by the Radar software in order to provide a cleaner, more clutter-free display. The level of detail for "raw" object returns other than terrain (e.g. airfields and buildings) is limited in MAP mode's lowest resolution format since the area of coverage is quite large. For example, a typical airfield may appear as no more than a small rectangular or circular patch against the surrounding terrain. A number of Doppler Beam-Sharpened (DBS) Expanded (EXP) modes are available from MAP which can "zoom in" to refine these areas of interest down to objects as small as individual buildings or even large vehicles.

[Knock-Knock]

I dont know the answer, but I went sniffing earlier when I saw the mention of real beam, and as I understand it, Real beam is a unprocessed real time raw radar return, which has fairly low resolution. Id imagine enough to detect a ship though. Looks like what the Viggen produces Id say.

 

RBGM is a Real Beam return.

DBS is a Doppler Beam Sharpening

SAR, dont think the APG 73 has this?

 

[tifafan]

I dont know the answer, but I went sniffing earlier when I saw the mention of real beam, and as I understand it, Real beam is a unprocessed real time raw radar return, which has fairly low resolution. Id imagine enough to detect a ship though. Looks like what the Viggen produces Id say.

 

RBGM is a Real Beam return.

DBS is a Doppler Beam Sharpening

SAR, dont think the APG 73 has this?

 

APG-73 has SAR and it's called DBS EXP3

[Knock-Knock]

APG-73 has SAR and it's called DBS EXP3

 

Thanks :thumbup:

[Harker]

I really hope we get at least EXP1 alongside RBM, otherwise the radar won't be much use in the beginning. I know that the Hornet doesn't really use its radar for anything else than anti-ship, but at least with DBS we'll maybe be able to locate armor columns moving through the desert etc.

[jojo]

I dont know the answer, but I went sniffing earlier when I saw the mention of real beam, and as I understand it, Real beam is a unprocessed real time raw radar return, which has fairly low resolution. Id imagine enough to detect a ship though. Looks like what the Viggen produces Id say.

 

RBGM is a Real Beam return.

DBS is a Doppler Beam Sharpening

SAR, dont think the APG 73 has this?

 

 

It has been discussed here

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202523

 

It seems that it does have SAR.

[TLTeo]

I really hope we get at least EXP1 alongside RBM, otherwise the radar won't be much use in the beginning. I know that the Hornet doesn't really use its radar for anything else than anti-ship, but at least with DBS we'll maybe be able to locate armor columns moving through the desert etc.

 

 

If it's comparable to the Viggen (which is a safe assumption), identifying tank columns should be doable.

[PinkyRng]

That's because it doesn't exist in the real jet

Source please. Because as far as I know they said that they will add HUD symbology later down the line for the F18. That seems to be the only HUD symbology.

Edited April 17, 2020 by PinkyRng

[AvroLanc]

Source please. Because as far as I know they said that they will add HUD symbology later down the line for the F18. That seems to be the only HUD symbology.

 

There's other TGP related symbology. At least LTD/R status and Masking Circle.

 

Wag's could have been referencing this, or he could have been mistaken. Either way there is additional symbology IRL.

 

The actual LOS symbol - who care's anyway? You're going to be using another sensor to cue the TGP anyway, either a Waypoint DSG or the radar (or datalink eventually?).

 

I've had the A10C for 10 years and have honestly never used the TGP Hud diamond to point the pod.

[Seaside]

I really hope we get at least EXP1 alongside RBM, otherwise the radar won't be much use in the beginning. I know that the Hornet doesn't really use its radar for anything else than anti-ship, but at least with DBS we'll maybe be able to locate armor columns moving through the desert etc.

 

Anti-ship is what I'm really waiting for :)

[PinkyRng]

There's other TGP related symbology. At least LTD/R status and Masking Circle.

 

Wag's could have been referencing this, or he could have been mistaken. Either way there is additional symbology IRL.

 

The actual LOS symbol - who care's anyway? You're going to be using another sensor to cue the TGP anyway, either a Waypoint DSG or the radar (or datalink eventually?).

 

I've had the A10C for 10 years and have honestly never used the TGP Hud diamond to point the pod.

Got the A10C as well and I always use it to point the TGP, so yeah would love if they finally added that simple feature.

Edited April 17, 2020 by PinkyRng

[AvroLanc]

Got the A10C as well and I always use it to point the TGP, so yeah would love if they finally added that simple feature.

 

It doesn’t exist in the Hornet. I’d rather they spend the time implementing the HUD symbology that does exist. Anyway, it’s been discussed to death already.

[LastRifleRound]

Source please. Because as far as I know they said that they will add HUD symbology later down the line for the F18. That seems to be the only HUD symbology.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=268670

[Fri13]

Radar targeting was used by F-15E during Desert Storm at least, who knows since then ?

 

With more advanced radar than we have.

 

Please show me a MBT disrupting laser guided weapons...

So far it doesn't seem widely fielded.

 

You haven't heard about multi-spectrum smokes that are decades old tech?

 

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/protection_systems/protection_systems_land/index.php

[Fri13]

The actual LOS symbol - who care's anyway? You're going to be using another sensor to cue the TGP anyway, either a Waypoint DSG or the radar (or datalink eventually?).

 

Fast and very effective is radio.

 

You get coordinates from the ground troops over radio, and you can slave your TGP on that position.

And if you are supporting troops, you already should have TGP on the area.

If you are attacking known location, you have coordinates where to point sensor.

If you don't have radio contact, then you can do it with map. You know the area and you slave the sensor based map. That way you get TGP far more accurately on area than using radar.

 

You are not going to take-off and then go to attack on your wanted targets that you find with radar etc. That is DCS Air Quake style gaming where people connect to server and then just think that real pilots will go to fly and attack whatever they consider to be valuable target in their opinion.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Fri13

[jojo]

With more advanced radar than we have.

 

 

 

You haven't heard about multi-spectrum smokes that are decades old tech?

 

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/protection_systems/protection_systems_land/index.php

 

Strike Eagle and Hornet were both McDonnell Douglas, there has been cross over about weapon systems and radar modes between the two, and I don't think a 1991 Strike Eagle is more advanced than a 2005 Hornet.

 

Your smoke system seems mostly optimised for ground battle and sub-optimal for attacks from above.

And yes, I know about that kind of stuff.

[LastRifleRound]

Fast and very effective is radio.

 

You get coordinates from the ground troops over radio, and you can slave your TGP on that position.

And if you are supporting troops, you already should have TGP on the area.

If you are attacking known location, you have coordinates where to point sensor.

If you don't have radio contact, then you can do it with map. You know the area and you slave the sensor based map. That way you get TGP far more accurately on area than using radar.

 

You are not going to take-off and then go to attack on your wanted targets that you find with radar etc. That is DCS Air Quake style gaming where people connect to server and then just think that real pilots will go to fly and attack whatever they consider to be valuable target in their opinion.

 

 

This is CAS. What about BAI? OCA? Deep interdiction? All Hornet missions and all don't involve this TIC situation you're describing, all against things that could have moved only in single player, all pre briefed. It's the antithesis of air quake.