hannibal Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 hi all i am about to build a collective control lever... i have noticed that on some collectives, which have a twist grip on the handle... on this twist grip, i always see a label that says throttle, hench throttle control.. But i thought pulling the lever handle up and down controls the throttle... someone clarify this for me? thanks... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
joey45 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 the twist is rotor speed [throttle] and pulling up the lever is lift [change AoA of rotrod] The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
mvsgas Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 AFAIK older helicopters you control the throttle by twisting the grip and you control the pitch on the main rotor blades by raising or lowering the collective does increasing or decreasing torque on the engine. Newer helicopters, like the KA-50, a electronic engine governor (EEG) controls the engine RPM or throttle and the only time you would control it is if you have a computer failure. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
hannibal Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 will this be implemented in BLACK SHARK? Or even in general, how is this control function set? i checked the control options for Microsoft Flight Simulator X...and I only see an assignment for throttle.. SO it just seems like for most games, this twist grip has no use... I understand both blade Angle of Attack, and Throttle.. correct me, but i see no games currently out that controls Rotor Blade Angle of Attack AoA.... No in FSX, nor Enemy Engaged... so it seems like i should not bother with making this twist grip... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
joey45 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 cos there's no copter HOTAS only plane ones. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
mvsgas Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Check here for some answers http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=950&scr=default&lang=en http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=718&scr=default&lang=en http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=133&scr=products&lang=en To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
hannibal Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 Check here for some answers http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=950&scr=default&lang=en http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=718&scr=default&lang=en http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=133&scr=products&lang=en did not see anything...only saw that was discussed, which was the throttle control and AoA/Pitch Control... should i bother to make this twist grip, because it seems like theres no sense, when the main control surce is the AoA/pitch, but most games only allow the setting of throttle control... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
joey45 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 i say dont bother. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
hannibal Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 i say dont bother. lol... you know, i would go to hovercontrol.com and see some insane simpits... all this fancy panels gauges, and in this case the cool twist grip... but its just all for show and does not facilitate and control function... guess its just the experence of feeling like being in a helicopter, as opposed to acutally using controls that actually do something in a game, whether it would be black shark of FSX.. find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
EvilBivol-1 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 In the Ka-50, engine throttle is controlled by two levers separately from the collective (one for each engine). You can see them being operated in the video at 5:20-5:25. Note, the throttle has four discrete positions - Idle, Medium, Auto, Full. For the most part, they stay in Auto and the pilot does not operate the throttles. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
bogusheadbox Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You will find that most helicopters these days now incorporate a goverened (auto)throttle control. Even the R22 and R44 piston helicopters now have this set as standard start up proceedures.
Sundowner.pl Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 lol... you know, i would go to hovercontrol.com and see some insane simpits... all this fancy panels gauges, and in this case the cool twist grip... but its just all for show and does not facilitate and control function... guess its just the experence of feeling like being in a helicopter, as opposed to acutally using controls that actually do something in a game, whether it would be black shark of FSX..No, you're wrong, check the Bell 206 from DodoSim, which most of the HoverControl users fly, it uses the twist handle ! Basically the twist handle is a throttle... but not quite :) On governor equipped helicopters, by twisting the handle, you can change the RPM of engine/s, for example to practice autorotations (it does not control rotor rpm !). But you don't have full control of them, because for fine tuning the engines RPMs to optimal, the governor is used, you just twist it to max, and live it there. Now when the governor fails, all you have is your wrist on the throttle to adjust engine/s power, for rotor RPM to remain in the green zone. The same goes for helicopters that are not equipped with the governor - mostly piston, like the Schweizer 300, and older Robinsons R22. You have to manually adjust engines to maintain optimal rotor RPMs. Most bigger aircrafts, like the UH-60 have the throttles separate, for non-disruptive use by the second crew member, or have it doubled, like in Mi-8 family which have both twist handles and levers. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
peterj Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 will this be implemented in BLACK SHARK? Or even in general, how is this control function set? i checked the control options for Microsoft Flight Simulator X...and I only see an assignment for throttle.. SO it just seems like for most games, this twist grip has no use... I understand both blade Angle of Attack, and Throttle.. correct me, but i see no games currently out that controls Rotor Blade Angle of Attack AoA.... No in FSX, nor Enemy Engaged... so it seems like i should not bother with making this twist grip... You have it in flight simulator, you can move the twist handle with the mouse if it's unassigned to change the throttle. The throttle axis controls the collective (rotor blade AoA).
arneh Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 correct me, but i see no games currently out that controls Rotor Blade Angle of Attack AoA.... No in FSX, nor Enemy Engaged... so it seems like i should not bother with making this twist grip... Collective controls Rotor AoA, throttle controls engine RPM. Modded EECH does have separate throttle and collective controls, although the throttle is only used during engine start and stop. During flight you just leave the throttle in the fly (auto) position, and only use the collective. And both the Apache and Comanche have the throttles separate on the left side console, airplane-style, not as a twist-grip on the collective. Other helicopters often have the throttles in the overhead panel. Not sure how the Russian helicopters do it. But in conclusion I don't think it's worth the bother to have it on a controller, since in most modern helicopters you never touch it during flight, only for starting and stopping an engine, or if simulating engine failure during autorotation practice.
hannibal Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 But in conclusion I don't think it's worth the bother to have it on a controller, since in most modern helicopters you never touch it during flight, only for starting and stopping an engine, or if simulating engine failure during autorotation practice. Arneh... you rock! your Apache 3d cockpit kicks butt! thanks much for the collective info.. i want to thank all for responses. Arneh, do you have a sim pit? if so, i wana see some pics... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
arneh Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Arneh, do you have a sim pit? if so, i wana see some pics... No, I don't. I just have regular HOTAS controllers.
arneh Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 BTW, here is a close-up of the AH-64D's throttle panel (which is on the left side, like it would be in a fighter plane):
SUBS17 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 For FSX I use an X-45 with the throttle mapped as collective and one of the rotarys for the throttle. Because in FSX FBW is not modelled you have to control the manually. Its cool that the KA50 has auto mode for the throttle that helps makes flying smoother.:thumbup: [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
hannibal Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 For FSX I use an X-45 with the throttle mapped as collective and one of the rotarys for the throttle. Because in FSX FBW is not modelled you have to control the manually. Its cool that the KA50 has auto mode for the throttle that helps makes flying smoother.:thumbup: I am running FSX Acceleration...Under the Control Axes Tab, I DO NOT SEE An event called "Collective".... there are events called throttle, mixture and propeller... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
Sundowner.pl Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Because the isn't any. Throttle == Collective in FSX setup. The real throttle might be a propeller or engine #2 throttle, depending if or where, maker of the a/c you're flying included that control in his work. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
VS461 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 twist grip Hi, guys, On Mi-24s (Mi-8s, Mi-17s), there are two throttle levers to each engine. On the collective there is a twist throttle grip as well. If you twist it to the full left, it is the idle "on the earth", we use this at start-up, during warm-up and cooling after a flight. After warm-up you twist the grip to the full right position; this is the idle "in the air", from this RPM the auto engine controller system operates and maintains 91-98 % of rotor RPM (you can choose the exact RPM with the governor, usually 95%, 91-93% for lower consumption en-route, 97-98% for intensive maneuvering). From take-off to land you only need to use the collective. The main use of separate throttle levers is during engine tests. However, you need to use them and the twist grip during a flight, if there's a failure of the engine control system (the engines don't work well together etc.) In some hard situations you have to maintain rotor RPM manually by the twist grip, or pull the wrong engine to idle, cool down and shut down. And there's a flight task for rookie pilots to fly and land with one engine, when you have to use the separate levers (if you pull down an engine, the other one will run at maximum power and maintain rotor RPM) Will a similar thing be modelled in BS? 1 За всю историю никто и никогда не сумел завоевать Афганистан. Hикто и никогда
SUBS17 Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 I am running FSX Acceleration...Under the Control Axes Tab, I DO NOT SEE An event called "Collective".... there are events called throttle, mixture and propeller... Its the sameone I use for propeller pitch in the prop aircraft. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
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