[REPORTED]Rocket recoil not modeled

[Taz1004]

Not sure if this will be fixed as I see this effect in really old YouTube videos but I'll report anyway.

 

With pitch hold autopilot, when you fire rockets, the nose pitch up. It is more apparent when you fire in salvo. But when you fire with flight director on, or pitch hold off, nose is steady when you fire rockets. I'm pretty sure this should be reversed.

 

I believe this is because recoil compensation is modeled into the autopilot but no recoil is actually modeled into the rockets. I can see this in the FMoptions.lua

 

--параметры компенсации отдачи: recoil compensation parameters

AP_K_GunYaw = 2.0;

AP_K_GunPitch = 0.05;

AP_K_GunSlowYaw = 0.04;

AP_K_GunSlowPitch = 0.005;

AP_K_RocketYaw = 0;

AP_K_RocketPitch = 3.0;

 

 

Cannons however works as intended. Recoil is compensated with autopilot holds on and the chopper rotates with them off. So I hope it is fairly easy to implement recoil into the rockets.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Taz1004

[Justin Case]

In addition to what Taz wrote I have also noticed that switching to gun while in rocket mode and depressing weapon release (release weapons in settings), will cause a pitch up without any rockets firing.

Ka50 rocket pitch.trk

[some1]

It's quite possible that recoil has been removed from the rockets intentionally, and they simply forgot to adjust the autopilot accordingly.

 

There was some debate whether rockets should push back the plane or not.

[Holbeach]

Rockets don't have any recoil effect whatsoever. IRL.

..

[Weta43]

Except in so far as they suddenly direct a jet of extremely high speed gas against all the forward surfaces of the aircraft, and can cause enough turbulence to flame-out the engines.

 

That effect can throw the aircraft around in yaw and pitch, and in the other thread on the same subject there are videos demonstrating that.

 

Other than that, no - no recoil.

[Flagrum]

rocket recoil? is that something similar to bullet backblast?

[Weta43]

There's no recoil on this jet, but the people behind it still take a tumble:

 

 

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Also - watch the trucks kick with each launch in this:

 

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Edited August 7, 2020 by Weta43

[heloguy]

There is little to no effect of rockets on the flight properties due to recoil. This is because the back of the rocket tubes are open. The rocket thrust pushes against the retention tang inside the tube until tube until it’s overcome, and releases the rocket to fly from the tube.

 

The reason too many rockets fired at once can cause engine flameout is because the exhaust gasses can starve the engines of oxygen when they are present in too high of volume. It has little to do with the rockets’ aerodynamic affect on the engines.

[Taz1004]

Didn't want to start a debate on whether there should be rocket recoil or not. If they removed the rocket recoil on purpose, then rocket recoil compensations should've been removed as well.

 

So this should be an easy fix?

[Weta43]

There's a post somewhere from Chizh with a document E.D. were prepared to take as evidence, saying that the flame out results from turbulence over the engine intakes, not ingesting gasses (though that was why Su-25's were forbidden to use S-24s)

[Taz1004]

Here's hoping 'AP_K_RocketPitch = 0.0;' gets implemented in FMOptions.lua so we don't have to manually edit it to 0.0 going forward.

 

Someone at ED took a look at FMOptions file it looks like. The file has been changed. Someone removed "recoil compensation parameters" from line 23. But didn't bother changing the RocketPitch compensation value itself. Wonder why.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

this is reported to the team but I have no news for you yet.

 

thank you

[Renko]

Any news yet Bignewy?

[Alleluia]

+1:music_whistling:

[audax]

It's been a while, but I am sure there is a good reason to delay this fix. Still, it would be nice if this issue could be resolved in the next 2 years

[Fastbreak]

8 hours ago, audax said:

It's been a while, but I am sure there is a good reason to delay this fix. Still, it would be nice if this issue could be resolved in the next 2 years

You also believe in storks carrying babies and delivering them to parents, don't you?

[audax]

5 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

You also believe in storks carrying babies and delivering them to parents, don't you?

I will never doubt ED on their own forums and only assume the best. I am very glad that this thread was not already closed with "correct-as-is"

[Fastbreak]

Good morning audax,

"Never" is a cussed long time...

My comments are based on my experience with DCS from the very beginning. I better point my doubts out here in this forum than to blame ED's work (where it is  reasonable) outside this forum - which I deem correct.

Of course, you might prefer a more anxious wait-and-see attitude, that's O.K., but to answer with Murtaugh's words "I'm too old for this s***".  

P.S.: Please note, I hope -as you do- that ED will adress the BS2 problem(s) and communicate it (them), too.

[audax]

I didn't buy BS3, so I can't test it myself. Is this bug now fixed in the new BS3? Of course I am still patient and don't demand this bug be fixed

Edited February 11, 2023 by audax

[Vital061270]

This is "pompaj". It was recently implemented. 
The gases from the rockets, get into the air intake of the engine. The engine runs out of oxygen and shuts down. A speed of over 100 km/h must be observed in order to launch the rockets. Especially the X-25. And the recoil from firing, automatically compensated by on-board systems.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Vital061270

[audax]

So finally we can shoot a whole salvo of rockets and they more or less hit without pitching the helicopter up by a stupid amount? That's great news!

[Vital061270]

At 200 km/h and a pitch angle of +30°, you can throw missiles at 10 km and hit the target area

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Vital061270