Will BS use of a realistic infantry? (I am not talking about ability shootem'up)

[Legolasindar]

Will BS use of a realistic infantry? (I am not talking about ability shootem'up)

 

The simulators always based action to destroy enemy vehicles, tanks, cars, ships, artillery pieces, trucks, etc. ... But never include infantry as a goal, and in the few cases that if they do so very simple.

 

But really all those vehicles not function without their crews. Take, for example, a patrol at any simulator the only way to end that threat would completely destroy the boat, seeing how exploits, when really only shoot with the barrel with conventional ammunition could kill any soldiers ship.

 

On the battlefield not only fighting armoured vehicles, also face platoons of soldiers, which are the most important goal, because those are really fighting, either as infantry, or inside vehicles, such as tanks or aircraft.

 

That is why we would like to know whether BS intends to use more advanced infantry?. As platoons on foot, as a crew vehicle land, sea and air.

 

Sorry for my english.

[Dmut]

realistic infantry? what that? yes, they will have very realistic two legs and incredibly realistic two hands, we also mind about two heads, but they say this wont be very realistic so we'll go with one....

:)

[VMFA117_Poko]

Remember to implement J. Rambo type guy with two guns and long hear :yes:

[Shaman]

I think what he asks is the ability to see and engage crew members leaving crippled vehicle and running for cover - it's just my simple example of many situations that pilots encounter.

[- Piloto da Morte -]

Realistic infantry like Operation flashpoint AI enemy, shot, run, cover, hide etc is nice... i think the DCS is more focused in realistic aircraft simulator and have nice AI but, will be very hard you see infantary calling support, call medic, call rescue, all this ''automatic'' if ammo is emply he get ammo in crates... very hard, but not impossible :)

[Legolasindar]

First, my English is very bad and that is why I am speaking as best I can, so some mocking comments is not always a wise option.

 

Still on the subject, is part of what shamandgg said. I am bored with having to kill a piece of artillery with a bomb when a simple burst of cannon could kill the soldiers that handle, that's what I mean.

 

When trying to remove a vehicle enemy we have two possibilities, damaging the vehicle or kill their soldiers.

 

Besides always attacking armoured formations, but that simulators attack formations of infantry?

 

I am not asking to be filled in a fire or throw grenades, or ask a doctor, I talk about how our interacts Ka-50 against enemy soldiers.

[experimental_pilot]

It would be amazing if the infantry can model a situation, such as this.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x42s3i_apache-shoot-insurgent_sport

 

Imagine that with a KA-50!!! :D Just hovering, watching... BOOM!

 

Would infantry behavior like that be possible?

 

and this.:D

[britgliderpilot]

It would be amazing if the infantry can model a situation, such as this.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x42s3i_apache-shoot-insurgent_sport

 

Imagine that with a KA-50!!! :D Just hovering, watching... BOOM!

 

Would infantry behavior like that be possible?

 

and this.:D

 

To be honest, that first clip looks a bit like it's from a game anyway. No tracer, the reports are at the same time as the round impact, a bloke mysteriously appears next to the car . . .

 

edit - that and the fact that I think I've actually seen the original footage. The audio's real, but I remember the video being more drawn-out and gruesome . . .

 

ArmA? BF2?

 

 

Anyway . . .

Don't know how clever the infantry are. You could probably trigger them to panic and start running around as soon as you overfly a base or hit a target . . . . mission-building fun.

 

But in terms of them panicking and dodging explosions, don't think they're that smart.

[experimental_pilot]

Yea, I can imagine it would be difficult to do.

But, I can hope! :smilewink:

[Groove]

I have cut out the particular video out of your post.

 

Please dont post potentially graphic / gruesome videos on ED Forums.

 

The first video is out of a video game.

[GGTharos]

Not anywhere near anything resembling 'soon' or 'in a short time' or 'in the next add-on'.

 

Black shark is a heli sim, not an infantry sim :) Perhaps eventually there will be additional logic to make more 'human' reactions, but that would probably be a long time in the making.

 

Would infantry behavior like that be possible?

 

and this.:D

[Avimimus]

realistic infantry? what that? yes, they will have very realistic two legs and incredibly realistic two hands, we also mind about two heads, but they say this wont be very realistic so we'll go with one....

:)

 

Hmm... might work.

 

I was wondering if there has been any thought to implementing an AI based on strategy games or war games? If the entire infantry force AI was controlled centrally it would be less CPU intensive and if the AI controlled infantry on both sides it control the outcome (eg. if blue is to take 40% attrition and red is going to take 20% attritions than blue would start making stupid decisions until the scripted ratio was reached).

 

In a similar chain of thought, it might be possible to purchase an existing strategy game engine and use it to produce a dynamic campaign.

[Shepski]

With the trigger system you can have infantry appear then move when a condition like a vehicle is damaged is met.

 

EvilBivol made an example mission showing the use of triggers. CSAR... I tried and it watched an Mi-8 simulate dropping a rescue force on the ground followed by an enemy infantry ambush from the trees.

 

A lot is possible with the trigger system.

[Legolasindar]

You are talking about one thing and I another. You are talking about complex reactions of the soldiers AI, and I only speak to consider the soldiers AI as a part of most vehicles, which can be damaged, as well as to include soldiers as AI units, like vehicles, it is not need to act in complex ways.

 

Do I am speaking in English so badly, that I am not able to understand my post?

[GGTharos]

That is not how it works Legolasindar. A vehicle is a vehicle and has its own AI, not soldiers.

[Grimes]

lego, I think they are trying to say that if a tank gets damaged or destroyed, a trigger may be enabled so that AI infantry will spawn just outside of the tank. They might not have the animations of climbing out and running away. But it would have the same effect.

[EvilBivol-1]

Remember, until recently ED considered infantry only an experiment. This is ED's first real exploration into infantry modeling and it is, for now, a modest, but important step forward.

Current infantry is essentially modified vehicle AI. It will follow waypoints as set in the editor and will kneel to engage targets. It will have a death animation when killed. That's about it. But even this simple functionality already greatly expands the possibilities for mission scenarios and gameplay immersion, especially when used with the trigger system. Shepski already alluded to the possibility of having soldiers appear under helicopters to simulate troop insertion. I'm also experimenting with a mission where infantry are "unloaded" from a convoy to enter and clear a village. Infantry ambush is another good example of what can now be done.

 

Don't expect current infantry to be dynamic and self-aware. For now, it merely acts as any other ground unit. However, I'm sure infantry logic and models will be greatly expanded as DCS evolves.

[EvilBivol-1]

You are talking about one thing and I another. You are talking about complex reactions of the soldiers AI, and I only speak to consider the soldiers AI as a part of most vehicles, which can be damaged, as well as to include soldiers as AI units, like vehicles, it is not need to act in complex ways.

Vehicles do not have modeled soldiers inside. Currently, the only way to have soldiers on the map is to put them there from the mission editor.

[EagleEye]

Current infantry is essentially modified vehicle AI. It will follow waypoints as set in the editor and will kneel to engage targets. It will have a death animation when killed. That's about it. But even this simple functionality already greatly expands the possibilities for mission scenarios and gameplay immersion, especially when used with the trigger system. Shepski already alluded to the possibility of having soldiers appear under helicopters to simulate troop insertion. I'm also experimenting with a mission where infantry are "unloaded" from a convoy to enter and clear a village. Infantry ambush is another good example of what can now be done.

Sounds great for me!:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

So how does the enemy AI react to the KA50 will they shoot at it with small arms and does the damage model take that into account? IMO infantry dug in would be cool.:thumbup:

[Legolasindar]

Thanks EvilBivol-1, that is essentially what we asked.

 

Are there plans for a future add AI soldiers as part of destructible vehicles? Do ie Crew? So that, for example, can destroy an artillery piece with bullets fired to soldiers, and not only with bombs or missiles? Maybe in the future game engine?

 

Thanks.

[Boberro]

I don't have high requirements for soldiers - I would like to see they are running after shoot or from time to time move from position (area). And hiding behind objects, example plane is incoming from north, soldier will find and hide his body that plane will lost contact.

[britgliderpilot]

I don't have high requirements for soldiers - I would like to see they are running after shoot or from time to time move from position (area). And hiding behind objects, example plane is incoming from north, soldier will find and hide his body that plane will lost contact.

 

Unfortunately, that might actually be quite a high requirement.

 

 

Infantry in BS is modified vehicle AI - and I'm not certain on this, but I don't think the vehicles are clever enough to fight a battle like that.

 

Move, find cover, fire, move again . . . that's pretty serious stuff.

Stalker and FEAR do it well and have been praised for it . . . but they're solid first-person-shooters, and Black Shark isn't.

[- Piloto da Morte -]

Unfortunately, that might actually be quite a high requirement.

 

 

Infantry in BS is modified vehicle AI - and I'm not certain on this, but I don't think the vehicles are clever enough to fight a battle like that.

 

Move, find cover, fire, move again . . . that's pretty serious stuff.

Stalker and FEAR do it well and have been praised for it . . . but they're solid first-person-shooters, and Black Shark isn't.

 

you is beta-test aren't you? i have played old Hind combat simulator 1996 and the infantary, can shot, run and shot again if you stay close... In DCS-BS i dont understand this think, for sample, in mission or mission edit when you put one enemy soldier and if you stay close of this enemy soldier, what they do??Shoot, run, escapes ?

[britgliderpilot]

you is beta-test aren't you? i have played old Hind combat simulator 1996 and the infantary, can shot, run and shot again if you stay close... In DCS-BS i dont understand this think, for sample, in mission or mission edit when you put one enemy soldier and if you stay close of this enemy soldier, what they do??Shoot, run, escapes ?

 

I can't say for sure, but I imagine they'll engage their target regardless of what it is.

 

The difference is that infantry played a major part in the life of the Hind - whether it was dropping them off, supporting them or extracting them. As a result, it had to be given some serious attention and development time.

 

 

The Ka50 is primarily an attack/anti-armour helicopter. Infantry doesn't really play a big role in it's life other than calling it in for support.

 

Infantry has been hacked into Black Shark at a relatively late stage by adapting the existing vehicle logic of the LO/FC engine . . . there simply hasn't been time to develop the AI to the level you're talking about there.

So in BS, you should expect a man with an AK to behave exactly like a very small tank. This isn't ideal, and realistic infantry battles are probably out of the question.

 

However, the addition of infantry can still add a great deal to mission immersion, even if just thrown in on triggers by a hard-working mission designer.

 

 

You make an interesting point, though. A major flaw in the AI of the engine so far is that it does not know fear ;)

 

For realistic combat, there ought to be a point at which the AI should find cover, disengage and regroup, or even retreat.

 

With the AI currently being controlled on a waypoint system rather than autonomous thought, that just isn't possible. Their one goal is to get to that waypoint - and they pursue it fanatically even if that leads to total extinction.

 

 

I'll be throwing that on the wish-list. Black Shark won't be perfect, but ED do intend to significantly develop the capabilities of the DCS engine as time goes on as well as adding new aircraft.