Starter aircraft

[Zius]

I fully realise that this up to ED to decide but:

 

 

At present we have the following aircraft for free when downloading DCS:

- TF-51D

- Su-25T

 

 

I would argue that those are not the best aircraft to lure in people who want to try out DCS to see if it is for them.

 

 

Personally I think the TF-51D is fine, it's a good example of how a warbird can be modelled in DCS.

 

 

But the Su-25T does not represent what DCS is capable of at all, and I think it can be disappointment for new players who happen to be not interested in warbirds.

 

 

My suggestion would be to take one of ED's full fidelity modules, e.g. the F-5, and make that available for free to new players. That way they can fully experience how DCS models jet fighters. And I think that in the end these players will end up buying other modules as well, and although they won't buy the F-5E or whatever module is made available, I think probably more players will stay interested.

[G.J.S]

Personally I think the two airframes currently included are fine to give you a taste.

The proof must surely be the many, many hundreds of thousands who fly currently (a very low side guess), and the number just keeps rising.

Those that relish proper systems usage will go on to purchase the modules that appeal to them personally, be it eastern, western, even relics.

As a taster, I think the TF-51 Mustang and SU-25T work.

[gavagai]

The two free offerings are fine. Anyone can watch youtube to see what the other modules have to offer.

[Glide]

I think the starters are fine too, speaking as a very new player here. I jumped into both the starter planes and spent a good week just flying around the maps till the tanks ran dry. Nothing like a slow flight down the coast at sunrise or sunset. I'm just starting to create my first mission for the Su-25T. I was on a recon flight this afternoon and ran out of fuel. Tried to land in a cow pasture. Didn't end well that time. :)

[LucShep]

I think there will never be consensus on what aircraft should be featured as starter aircraft.

 

I have to agree that the current two aircraft are, IMHO, not the best to attract people, either to the simulation, or to keep them interested in it.

One problem I can see for ED taking a decision on this is that, one has also to think that there's a thin line, on the border of being "too generous".

It can quickly turn into a "this is so good as is that I'll stick just with the free content" thing for newcomers, so it must be well thought.

 

With that said:

 

• I'd remove the SU-25T and replace it with the A-10A.
  Even if the roles both play are similar, and both low-fidelity (easier to learn, good for newcomer), the western flavour makes a big difference for less knowledged users.
  The A-10A is far more popular, more iconic, not just to the western world, maybe to the entire world.
  Plus, the A-10A has one major advantage that no other aircraft in DCS has... a propper "upgrade" sense with the A-10C high-fidelity module (probably ED's most famous ever).
  Once the basic aircraft is mastered, temptation will be there for the more advanced one, with clicky cockpit buttons and higher-tech weapons, etc.
  
• I'd also remove the TF-51 Mustang, and replace it with a full blown (WWII) Warbird.
  Either the Polikarpov I-16 (as it's perhaps the least popular) or the P-51D Mustang (because it's the oldest content wise).
  Newcomers would get the real taste of a high-fidelity, top quality warbird (pew-pew missions and all) while being restricted.
  ...remember, there would be no WWII assets (DLC) or propper historical terrains (The Channel and Normandy 1944 are also DLC).
  

Lastly, this is more complicated, but having ED announcing somewhere and somehow* in the DCS website that there are free modules made by the community available, such as these:

 

• A-4E Skyhawk
  
• MB-339A/PAN
  

I think these can be an alternative to introduce new players to high-fidelity military jets. They cost nothing (FREE!) and don't sacrifice anything that ED has in store.

They're obscure, somewhat limited, and popularity wise.... they're not Warbirds and, most of all, they're not the modern F16, F/A18, F15 or even the Mirages, MiGs and Sukhois, which -let's be honest here- surely are (and will still be) the highest selling modules for ED, and what most youngsters crave for.

 

*I know the staff does place them pinned in the Mods section of the forums here, and that it could be complicated for rights, etc.

But it's also one way to show appreciation for these community efforts, by giving such honors to mod-teams (or a modder if individual effort) - having them announced by the developpers of the sim/game title it was built for.

Edited August 22, 2020 by LucShep
..spelling(?)

[jmarso]

Just a thought, but ED might consider adding one more free aircraft to DCS: something like the T-6 Texan II, or PC-7, as not only a starter aircraft, but as a trainer which newcomers, particularly non-RL pilots could use to 'cut their teeth' on: a plane with relatively simple systems and forgiving handling characteristics. In addition to basic airmanship, a trainer can be used to learn how to spin (and recover from spins), the differences between spins and graveyard spirals, how to recover an OCF aircraft that's departed the envelope, and so on. Something to give flying newbs a fighting chance when they strap on an analog beauty like the Tomcat for the first time.

 

Reading some recent threads, just learning how to fly in a non-arcade, study-sim environment is throwing some newcomers for loops. (Proverbially speaking :P).

 

I know the counter-argument- 'it's a combat sim, learn to fly on something else if that's what you want.' Still, a lot of people comment on how they often enjoy just flying the planes, or landing on the boat, or whatever catches their fancy. The maps are beautiful, particularly at certain times of day, and it's not all 'chaff and flares city, baby!' for everyone all the time.

 

A free trainer to get people engaged and interested might entice them to break open the wallet for more paid modules. If they have to pay for other software to learn the basics, then there's no guarantee they'll look at DCS for the free stuff, much less the paid.

 

Just food for thought.

Edited August 22, 2020 by jmarso

[reece146]

It's fine the way it is IMO.

 

Between the TF51 and the Su-25 there is opportunity to see if the player is really interested enough to move forward. If you can manage the TF51 you can fly most of the warbirds and about a third of the way to being able to handle the Spitfire on the ground. Jets are simple to fly so the Su-25 basically tells you if you are interested or not.

 

Nowadays there are four good, free modules as well between the A4, MB-339, Edge 540, AH-6J that someone that is still not certain can cut their teeth on.

 

That's three fixed wings and the helicopter. Plenty.

 

Buying a flyable module after that for between $40 and $80 is really no hardship or big deal if the player is truly interested.

 

 

2¢

[Qiou87]

Even if these free mods are amazing, you cannot ask a newb to start on one. I do agree that a western aircraft would be easier to start with. I also like this idea of a trainer aircraft, although the L39 is already available (or revive the Hawk) to fill this role of the free entry into DCS instead of making a brand new module. This is where you should theoretically start to learn to fly , and given the limited capabilities once the player starts to master the flying part on their trainer, they would be ready to jump into a modern detailed module.

 

I started DCS 9 months ago and directly bought the F15 because I had no interest in a Su25, because there was no full fidelity module to step up to afterwards (nothing on the Russian side, so why bother learning the Russian plane logic and systems?). I still have zero flight hours in the TF51 and Su25T.

[Glide]

Fun in the TF-51D

 

Try this. Take the Hot start from Batumi parking in Instant Action for the TF-51D on the Caucasus map. Fly up the coast until you get to the two big rivers. Then race up and down the rivers until you run dry. Dead stick it down into a field if your lucky. And then find a tree if your not. :)

Edited August 22, 2020 by glide
corrected mission name

[Glide]

And let me add that you can't stay between the river banks in a jet. :P Try staying below tree top level. You really get to understand bleeding energy in tight turns. I almost reverse stalled it. Gotta love the P-51.

[reece146]

You'd probably love low flying the Vire river and the Carentan Canal in Normandy and staying under the bridges. It's one of the free flight things I do in the Yak and CE-2. Not sure the TF51 will fit... may have to try it.

 

 

Looks like Syria has some amazing valleys to explore - nicer that the Caucasus map.

[Glide]

Bent prop on landing

 

That's too much fun!

[Glide]

If there was a way to create multiplayer missions with the TF-51D, that would be the best group sport! Air races, anyone!

[reece146]

http://virtualairrace.com/

[Glide]

Thank you recce!

[upyr1]

If ED were to change the starter aircaft, then I hope they chose the Goshhawk.

[reece146]

Goshawk is another free, high fidelity module about to be released. Not created by ED.

[BuzzU]

How about one of the F3 planes? That wouldn't cost ED much to add and it would give a taste of a jet fighter to a noob.

[Zius]

My vote for a Su-25T replacement or addition would be the F-5.

 

 

It's a full fidelity jet, with radar, but at the same time not a contestant for F/A-18, F-16 etc.

 

 

And it's a jet. But certainly not the best at anything, so there is something that's left to be desired in all directions.

 

 

 

At the same time it's an aircraft which is a lot of fun to fly. And it gives a full experience of DCS systems modelling. And it's owned by ED.

 

 

But at $59.99 list price, I think the vast majority just goes for either F/A-18 or F-16 as their first aircraft, as they are just a bit more expensive and (in the eyes of the general public) a lot more attractive to fly.

[sublime]

I fully realise that this up to ED to decide but:

 

 

At present we have the following aircraft for free when downloading DCS:

- TF-51D

- Su-25T

 

 

I would argue that those are not the best aircraft to lure in people who want to try out DCS to see if it is for them.

 

 

Personally I think the TF-51D is fine, it's a good example of how a warbird can be modelled in DCS.

 

 

But the Su-25T does not represent what DCS is capable of at all, and I think it can be disappointment for new players who happen to be not interested in warbirds.

 

 

My suggestion would be to take one of ED's full fidelity modules, e.g. the F-5, and make that available for free to new players. That way they can fully experience how DCS models jet fighters. And I think that in the end these players will end up buying other modules as well, and although they won't buy the F-5E or whatever module is made available, I think probably more players will stay interested.

 

thatd be fine.. but what about those of us who bought the module? either a refund or new module or there will be outrage and rightfully so.

TBH tho the F5 is easy, its actually harder for those used to MFDs.

I think maybe ED should choose one of the FC3 say mig29s (so many variants) or something..

Otherwise... people will lose out somehow.

Even FC3 people will lose somewhat.

But any new planes take away from those in development.

Its a good idea but in the end I dont think DCS needs it. Its very well known and growing rapidly. Starting with the F18 they started making some VERY famous and popular planes and I think this helped immensely ( F14, F16, F18)

[sublime]

You'd probably love low flying the Vire river and the Carentan Canal in Normandy and staying under the bridges. It's one of the free flight things I do in the Yak and CE-2. Not sure the TF51 will fit... may have to try it.

 

 

Looks like Syria has some amazing valleys to explore - nicer that the Caucasus map.

 

Iran west of Lar has some AMAZING canyons.

But yes Syria is AMAZING. really great canyons, Ill add near Raqqa theres a dam just asking to be bombed

[Taz1004]

thatd be fine.. but what about those of us who bought the module? either a refund or new module or there will be outrage and rightfully so.

TBH tho the F5 is easy, its actually harder for those used to MFDs.

I think maybe ED should choose one of the FC3 say mig29s (so many variants) or something..

Otherwise... people will lose out somehow.

Even FC3 people will lose somewhat.

But any new planes take away from those in development.

Its a good idea but in the end I dont think DCS needs it. Its very well known and growing rapidly. Starting with the F18 they started making some VERY famous and popular planes and I think this helped immensely ( F14, F16, F18)

 

I agree with one of FC3 planes. Purpose of starter plane is to give taste of DCS to "new" players who may never played sim before. Which is what FC3 is for. And the goal should be to include a "popular" and "glamorous" plane that people will be attracted to. Which is Mig-29, SU-27 or F15.