Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[SGT Coyle]

Last gripe that makes it unflyable. A Night Attack aircraft that you can't stand to fly at night. I'll admit that there have been some improvements over the six months, but the lighting was killing so bad I don't use it at night.

 

 

And just so I'm not labled a hater, I know to late, the last update they adjusted the roll rate. It made the thing feel very natural. With no change to my setup, I noticed a vast improvement.

 

 

And I went on their discord and told them.

[SGT Coyle]

And then went on to ask about keybinds. Crickets

[Sajarov]

Razbam: So... who is nineline?

Unbelievable. When you think you saw everything, Razbam always make it worst! :doh:

[SGT Coyle]

 

 

Makes you wonder what happened to =Decoy=

[ZioSam]

After this post i expect on next weekend news letter:

We are sorry to inform you that Razbam is no longer a 3rd party of DCS World.

Signed NineLine,community manager.

p.s: take this RB!

[FoxOne007]

After this post i expect on next weekend news letter:

We are sorry to inform you that Razbam is no longer a 3rd party of DCS World.

Signed NineLine,community manager.

p.s: take this RB!

 

We can only wish, this would allow a competent dev to take over the F-15E license and to it justice (like ED)

[NineLine]

 

 

Makes you wonder what happened to =Decoy=

 

Decoy is still with them, just stepped away from CM duties.

[NineLine]

After this post i expect on next weekend news letter:

We are sorry to inform you that Razbam is no longer a 3rd party of DCS World.

Signed NineLine,community manager.

p.s: take this RB!

 

We can only wish, this would allow a competent dev to take over the F-15E license and to it justice (like ED)

 

I know its frustrating, but let's try to be somewhat nice. We will get this worked out.

[ruxtmp]

Bignewy and Nineline, I want to take the time to thank you for reviewing these long lasting issues and concerns with the Harrier module. I do not envy your positions but I am very thankful that you two are looking into addressing and hopefully helping to have the community's concerns with this module resolved. Thanks again. :thumbup:

Edited September 9, 2020 by ruxtmp
spelling correction

[NineLine]

Bignewy and Nineline, I want to take the time to thank you for reviewing these long lasting issues and concerns with the Harrier module. I do not envy your positions but I am very thankful that you two are looking into addressing and hopefully helping to have the community's concerns with this module resolved. Thanks again. :thumbup:

 

You are very welcome, the Harrier should be a cornerstone module in the DCS collection, want to make sure it all it needs to be.

[ZioSam]

Yeah,quite a bit especially when as customer you feel your trust in the mother company (ED) and in the 3rd party (RB) was sent in the trash can.

After VEAO debacle ED stepped in saying no more of this but tbh lately i have a feeling that ED is not enforcing the proper weight on 3rd parties (OP missiles,fantasy planes performances,no damage model and excessive wait for update or just simply news.

ED in the last 3 years really improved as company but the same can't be said for other sub contractors.I wish for the future a stricter control from ED,in the mean time i will skip from buying other modules from companies i don't trust and this really make me sad cause i'm a mig23 lover

[NineLine]

Yeah,quite a bit especially when as customer you feel your trust in the mother company (ED) and in the 3rd party (RB) was sent in the trash can.

After VEAO debacle ED stepped in saying no more of this but tbh lately i have a feeling that ED is not enforcing the proper weight on 3rd parties (OP missiles,fantasy planes performances,no damage model and excessive wait for update or just simply news.

ED in the last 3 years really improved as company but the same can't be said for other sub contractors.I wish for the future a stricter control from ED,in the mean time i will skip from buying other modules from companies i don't trust and this really make me sad cause i'm a mig23 lover

 

Things like this have been known to initiate change, and obviously I will pass on my thoughts and concerns about everything, once we have it all nailed down.

[Shrike88]

Bignewy and Nineline, I want to take the time to thank you for reviewing these long lasting issues and concerns with the Harrier module. I do not envy your positions but I am very thankful that you two are looking into addressing and hopefully helping to have the community's concerns with this module resolved. Thanks again. :thumbup:

 

I agree also thank you I really hope there is a resolution to all of this

And it doesn’t loose it’s steam as it has several times before the last 3 years. Also, why is this just now getting looked into by ED ?

 

Keep up the momentum please as there is much to be done

[Fri13]

I have little conflicted thoughts about this whole thing.

 

Personally I would really like to see a MiG-23 in DCS. And I was first very happy that ED hinted that "we are not giving it away to anyone" that they are going to produce it. But, as can be seen, it has own story how Razbam announced it etc.

 

There has been years in Harrier that it has not received core features added or fixed. Making it just half-way working unit.

But when the Razbam promised that they will not release any new modules before all three modules (M2000C, AV-8B and MiG-19P) are out of Early Access and hopefully in end of 2020, it was first nice to hear that they would fix them and add the missing features.

 

But now, they seem to be pushing F-15E out ASAP. And to do that, they need to at least fullfill their promise of getting those three modules out of the EA. So what is the easiest way?

You just push them out and you call them "feature complete - but not bug free".

 

So personally I should be happy that MiG-23MLA release is closer, but then again why to even care when there is possibility it will just go through the same road as AV-8B, and end up to same situation?

I can think that Razbam is burning money and they need to start generating income from the F-15E. So they need to get ASAP it out.

[Southernbear]

Ah seems after a wonderful sleep the problem seems to have only gotten more complex...welp sorry but I gotta do it to'em.

 

Thank you for you patience in this multi day issue Nineline and others, I know your hands are probably tied when it comes to what you can say and ask.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Southernbear

[Harlikwin]

@nineline

 

So maybe you can also get some clarification for us what "year" the raz harrier is supposed to be. I mean seriously its "sekrit"?

[Pikey]

The only thing that has changed in the last 18 months is that I've given up on Razbam completely. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3933228&postcount=173 was the way I feel now, minus any care any more. Withheld purchase of the Mig19, because they have refused to talk to the forums, substantially, for over a year inorder to explain themselves. I'm sad that the Mig23 will never be something I can fly, ever. Same with the SHAR. I dont even care if they finish the features now, makes no difference.

 

Harrier isnt as bad as is made out, yes its missing plenty of buttons (most of the them on the UFC), and pages have more dead ends than their bug threads. A few clangers like bombing modes, and of course entire systems like hotspot detector, which i can forgive, as its rubbbish, and DCS doesnt support it, and TAMMAC, which is good and they should have, because the A-10 had SADL implemented... but overall, its not like you cannot have fun in it. But that's irrelevant. It's shallow. I mean really shallow. I dont think there is an SME touching it. "TOP SECRET" cannot say. Art work was great, FM was ... OK, although too easy, but systems and avioncs, rushed, and shallow. Two dead buttons isntead of IFF controls. That HUD overlay on the MFCD, who were they trying to fool? Looked horrid. Can't even tell you what version it is. It's hybrid of course, like their Mirage 2000C.... cough -5 mixups. They dont want to say, dont want to own up, not courageous enough to announce they arent attempting any of the missing features. Stealth EA pull, just their sneaky style. Can't tell you, it's secret.

 

You can't get a refund, you can try, its a fineprint thing. Act with your wallets, the damage is done long ago, this is not news.

F-15E? You have got to be joking.

 

Also, the way people acted here was too far and this was semi provoked. Sure, they should have a backbone and deal with it, but its too late now. The bug reports were terribly low quality. I read the community bug tracker. I stopped when I read a triplicate - but I dont want to insult someone that tried to handle it the best way they knew how. Still, gathering posts wasnt a great, some of those very out of date.

 

The entire affair is sad because the potential was all there, but they started with too complex. I feel sorry for the people like Tim who did such a great job.

[NineLine]

@nineline

 

So maybe you can also get some clarification for us what "year" the raz harrier is supposed to be. I mean seriously its "sekrit"?

 

Not totally sure I understand the reasoning here either, I can ask. I mean we have a rough idea what we shoot for with ED stuff, even if we have to add and subtract here and there based on info.

[bkthunder]

I read the community bug tracker. I stopped when I read a triplicate - but I dont want to insult someone that tried to handle it the best way they knew how. Still, gathering posts wasnt a great, some of those very out of date.

 

No disrespect meant, but you should also have read the "read me" or the forum post where I clearly lay out the principles of the bug tracker.

 

In particular

 

This bug tracker doesn't substitute the forum reports, in fact you have to paste the link to the report. So the idea is, we list in the tracker all the reports, while the discussion, track submission etc. still happen on the official forum channel.

Note: the file is based ONLY on the forum posts (i.e. the official communication channel). If a forum bug report is not acknowledged, not tagged as [REPORTED], not tagged as [FIXED] or else there is no post from the devs inside the thread that says it is, it will appear as an open bug in the bug tracker.

 

I cannot possibly go and test each week, each and everyone of those reports and change the status myself, can I?

I believe I have dedicated, sorry, wasted enough time reporting bugs that went unanswered for years, and then making the community tracker (and updating it as much as possible).

 

@Nineline, my complaints and missing features are in the bug tracker. You can filter for "bkthunder" and see what I have reported and is still open.

I frankly have very little time to AGAIN make another list, maybe I will but it's difficult.

 

The main point you should take away is this product is not a highly accurate/realistic simulation of the Harrier. It's not accurate, the FM is missing key VTOL dynamics, the systems are half baked, weapons are missing.

What makes it useless for me? Simple. I bought this:

 

The subject of this study level simulation is the AV-8B N/A Bu No's 163853 and up which are the latest variant of this very capable AV-8B version.

 

Key Features of DCS: AV-8B N/A VTOL by RAZBAM include:

 

Advanced Flight Model that provides realistic performance and flight characteristics of a Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) aircraft

Highly detailed external 3D model and textures with animations

Highly detailed and accurate 6 DOF cockpit with high resolution textures, specular and bump mapping, and mouse-interactive controls

Highly realistic modelling of the aircraft systems including electrical, fuel, hydraulics, lighting, engine and navigation that includes:

Digital Engine Control System (DECS)

Automatic Fuel System

Air Refueling System

Electrical Power System

External Lighting

Internal Lighting

Hydraulic Power Supply System

Flight Control System (FCS)

Head-Up Display (HUD)

Up-front Control (UFC)

Option Display Unit (ODU)

Multipurpose Color Displays (MPCD)

VREST Computer (for jet-borne flight)

Air Data Computer (ADC)

Environmental Control System (ECS)

On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS)

Realistic weapons, sensor, and defensive systems include:

Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground GAU-12 Equalizer 25 mm (0.984 in) 5-barreled Rotary cannon pod

6 under-wing pylon stations holding up to 9,200 lb (4,200 kg) of payload which include:

AIM-9 Sidewinder or similar-sized infrared-guided missiles

AGM-65 Maverick Air-to-Surface missiles

Mark 80 series of unguided bombs (including 3 kg [6.6 lb] and 14 kg [31 lb] practice bombs)

Paveway series of Laser-Guided Bombs (LGBs)

Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GBU-38, GBU-32, and GBU-54)

Mark 20 Cluster Bomb Units (CBUs)

AN/AAQ-28V LITENING targeting pod

ALQ-164 ECM Pod

Several skins

Detailed Operational Manual and Pocket guide

Instant Action, Single, and Training Missions

Detailed representation of the USS Tarawa (LHA-1), lead ship of her class.

For more information and support, please visit: RAZBAM

 

 

I did not get what is in there.

It is not a study level simulation. I am using DCS because it is.

 

If I buy a knife and you give me scissors, the scissors for me are uselss because I needed a knife. Get it?

 

Edit: here’s a fitting analogy to sum up.

I bought the tickets to see Top Gun, but I was given hot shots with Charlie sheen. Lol.

Edited September 10, 2020 by bkthunder

[Gladius]

I am glad that ED is now taking care of it. At least it gives some hope for the Harrier.

Thanks to NineLine and Bignewy for the mediation and support for us.

 

I have written off Razbam for me. Under the circumstances I won't buy anything more, even if it might get better in the future.

 

What I would be interested in is the future maintenance of the Harrier or the M2k.

If the Harrier is completed now and everything is as we imagine it to be, we can hope that if in the future there is something wrong with the Harrier, it will be fixed in a reasonable time or what I fear nothing will be done.

 

Because this way I will not want to deal with the Harrier anymore.

 

Maybe it would be good if the newsletter on Friday would inform us all about what is going on here at the moment. So that the state of affairs is clarified in short form.

[mue]

I wonder, why ED don't put the Early Access label back on the Harrier until the missing items are delivered or implemented? Is there no QA for 3rd party modules?

[Cornelius]

Yes, these are 2 really important questions. Because nothing real has happened yet.

Only: "Stay tuned, we are working on it" and the community bug tracker thread closed.

 

And while their primary texture artist says: "Nonsense! ONLY ED can take the Harrier out of the ea, the one who says that is just a community manager and has no idea!", says the community manager:" Nonsense! Only Razbam can take the module out of ea, the one who says that is just a texture artist and has no idea!". :punch:

[viper2097]

I have seen 2 things from the store text missing, one is waiting on us,

That is nothing more then a cheap excuse.

Was HB waiting with the AIM-54 on you?

Was Deka waiting with all their weapons on you?

Deka has terminal guidance in the Jeff, why is it missing in the Harrier? Oh, yes, once again, its ED's fault...

Everything that is missing or wrong in the Harrier is either ED's fault, someone else's fault or "top secret".

Thats ridiculous.

 

one has been explained (the manual).

We talked to them, and apparently there was a miss-communication, that the manual was supposed to be done, but was held up by COVID (this is based on feedback from Baltic Dragon). They are going to get that addressed as soon as they can.

 

Baltic Dragon is more then an integer person and is always delivering absolute great content and open to any kind of critic.

Its bottom drawer to pull now him also into this farce. (From RB, not from you)

 

And under the line, it is so simple:

If the product does not match the shop description (and yes, also a system that is only implemented with ~20% functionality should be considered as missing) it should not be allowed to leave EA.

BigNewy, you always say "EA isn't for everyone". Now it seems that also "finished" products aren't for anyone.

 

 

Honestly I don't think this is important.

 

The store page lists it as "BUNO 163853 and up" but the DCS Harrier is and has always been a "Frankenharrier" due to the wide disparities in age of the source documents they're using, and the realistic need for them to make concessions and compromises to realism in the service of authenticity and gameplay.

 

The statement from Razbam that it is secret is nothing more then a bad joke, you know what they wanna hide with it.

 

For me, its quite ok that the Harrier is a Frankenharrier and the exact BuNo is not stated.

But it becomes a problem when talking about systems. For example, take my report about the light switch:

Ext. lights - wrong functions (should be correct for a night attack aircraft!)

There it should be clarified according to which BuNo it should be working.

 

But tell me personally why the Harrier is useless to you, what makes it unplayable. I am not being a smart ass, or joking, I am totally serious.

 

Please, climb in, fly 20+h with it and try to use all weapons and functions at least once.

You will recognize that there is not "one thing" that is bugged at the moment, like we are used to it from the F-18 or F-14 etc., there are multiple things bugged in anything you do.

 

I'm also not being a smart ass or joking, I am totally serious. Take a seat and fly and use it for some time.

 

Its the sum of hundred small things that makes it useless, because there is only frustration when useing it.

 

here’s a fitting analogy to sum up.

I bought the tickets to see Top Gun, but I was given hot shots with Charlie sheen. Lol.

 

:thumbup::lol:

Awesome, so perfect :lol:

Edited September 10, 2020 by viper2097

[veenee]

It would be fair now for ED & RAZBAM to offer refunds for any Harrier owners, unless EA label is put back on it.

 

But it's not going to happen, is it? ;-)

Edited September 10, 2020 by veenee

[Mr_sukebe]

Just to add.

Whilst I appreciate that the Harrier still has some bugs, that I still love flying mine.

Bought it day 1, and have since bought the F18, F16, F14 etc. I still get a kick out of flying the harrier and was out in it last night doing some SEAD over Syria.