Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[Hawkeye_UK]

Not much use for those that do not use facebook. Not posted here in the official forum because?

 

Statement on actually sorting out the module when, with something of substance content and workflow wise?

[Eldur]

Best manual original A10C, just saying.

 

Yup, one of the things that first attracted me to DCS, all those pages

 

Back in the day, when those actually existed. But well, it's hard having a proper, printed manual on something that's still in development.

 

its just part of being human we are all good at something's and bad at other things.

 

That's what I'd call a rumour. Not directed at anyone here, just my own experience - guess there's a nice quote on that topic:

 

"Here we go. Don't suck. Or suck with confidence if you're going to suck." ~C. W. Lemoine

 

The second part of that sencence is true though, and the ones being able to admit are the strong ones. On top of that, it's the first step towards improving there.

 

For some, it's simply enough to have a basic start up and then takeoff fling some jdams and land. All the power to you for that, it is a sandbox afterall.

 

But for others, you just run into problem after problem:

Start the jet up; immediately you fail the JPTL test before the engines are even on, and until weeks ago, you fail the DC pump checks, etc etc

Jets started up; have to enter radio channels twice because the . Doesn't take the first time. Unable to enter MGRS waypoints, so you try to enter a latlong waypoint, but half of the systems are in decimal and half in seconds.

Start taxi; Needing to add a load of power to 'unstick' the jet, whereas irl it taxis at idle.

Takeoff; Vrest page values don't show the actual required nozzle angle, rotate with the manual specified trim set and find the aircraft nose diving even when matching RL takeoff figures.

You roll away from the runway and the horizon line starts rising and falling because of the crosswind being miscalculated by the jet. You enter a tacan to navigate from but the course line disappears after 30NM or so, making it impossible. You set your TRAK on the EHSD to fly to a point, but the TRAK is wrong because the EHSD is in TRUE not MAG.

You select the tpod and struggle to slew to a target, because the slew bug still exists. The pod will randomly recage itself meaning you have to manhandle the slew once again. You find a target and go to use the jdam but find yourself having to mash the WINC button more than once to get the jdam to accept the target.

You manage to find your way to a boat to land, again the course line missing and the horizon line moving stare into your face. You hover alongside the boat, but there is no HPI so you have to visually land like some ww2 ace.

 

This should be printed on high quality document paper in an extraordinarily fashionable and elegant font, seal stamped, put into a golden frame and sent to RAZBAM as a certificate for what has been achieved to date, as a nice and firm reminder there's still some work to do

 

And even though I have stated having had fun with the module, I'd very much prefer the in-depth logics working properly, as that'd literally double the fun!

 

if I were them I would just close the DCS shop and develope for MSFS 2020 where they don't really bother that much in if the systems are realistic and never have.

 

Made me laugh really hard there

 

Haven't seen a community as toxic as in FS20 in a while to be frank. They'd jump on you when you state that it simply has severe performance issues, acting like preschool children with totally entitled arguments like "You shouldn't even be trying this with your cheap i5 and 1080, go back and play your DCS arcade game from a decade ago. FS doesn't run on your utterly outdated low end rig because it is an actual sim optimized for future hardware that doesn't even exist yet!" (not kidding, I've seen such comments) If anyone's even daring to remotely criticize on their beloved holy grail, they instantly go full rampage over there... RAZBAM really would be better off staying here. And IIRC in the latest interview they said they have no plans for making stuff for the new FS.

 

When I buy a new module I'm used to read the whole manual at least once even before starting the first training mission. That's the reason I do not buy early access stuff: there's no manual. What's the point in calling them "study level" if there's no stuff to study?

 

Heatblur: Am I a joke to you?

Asobo "not even a pdf" Studios entered the chat

 

AV-8B list of stuff already done and pushed, Ready for release should be up by next Wednesday, Maybe is self explanatory (but granted in next) and the rest in next update:

 

[...]

 

Great to see progress. I guess that's not just happening because of what's been going on lately. Nice to know there'd be an update planned for next week since TBH I was expecting it in 2 weeks as in 4 weeks after the last one.

 

Not much use for those that do not use facebook. Not posted here in the official forum because?

 

Even though I do have an account there and am following RAZBAM, I hardly ever see those update messages unless I actually visit their page directly, and TBH I'm not MiG28ing any page there to stay up to date. But well, that's the kind of triage based on some weird and sekrit wiccan black magic algorithms which they'd then call "relevance" you'd get when using such services as fb, twidder, the tyoube or any other social media platform. And that'd be reason enough not to use those as news channels as someone who likes to get things out to be known of. Well, though I'm missing the days when RAZBAM would have their monthly video updates. They really should get back on track doing that (they aren't even quarterly anymore as the last one was somewhere in 2019), since that was quite the transparency we're asking for right now.

[F900EX]

What a cluster ...RAZBAM me has always been one of those Developers that over promises and under delivers on timelines, but honestly the only people to blame are yourselves, people keep asking for this and that.. I Demand the F-15E, are we there yet lol ... you guys are unbelievable, I say reap what you sow since you keep supporting them and throwing $$$$ until 3-5 year projects that never get completed.

 

Personally I think they did a good job in the Mirage 2000, the FM is done very well but this community at some point has to look in the mirror and stop asking and paying for garbage let them finish one module and then move on to the next, every week another silly thread what about this, WHEN WHEN !!!, I need!!! I want !! ... just never stops, no wonder =DECOY= stepped down lol

 

 

49 pages of cry's and its glorious lol You think RAZZy care, let me let you into a little secret THEY have YOUR $$$$$ why would they care, your along for the ride and they will take their sweet time since you the community keep demanding and asking for new mods to be released.

 

 

At some point you the DCS community needs to take a look at your self's and be accountable for your actions and wonder how they got themselves into this mess in the 1st place .... by keep asking for more and then paying for an unfinished module

Edited September 12, 2020 by F900EX

[NineLine]

From what they've said they were already working on it and they've also shown some pictures of the reworked new MPCDs and HUD

 

Yes, even when me and BN started talking to them about stuff, they had things already in the works.

[statrekmike]

What a cluster ...RAZBAM me has always been one of those Developers that over promises and under delivers on timelines, but honestly the only people to blame are yourselves, people keep asking for this and that.. I Demand the F-15E, are we there yet lol ... you guys are unbelievable, I say reap what you sow since you keep supporting them and throwing $$$$ until 3-5 year projects that never get completed.

 

Personally I think they did a good job in the Mirage 2000, the FM is done very well but this community at some point has to look in the mirror and stop asking and paying for garbage let them finish one module and then move on to the next, every week another silly thread what about this, WHEN WHEN !!!, I need!!! I want !! ... just never stops, no wonder =DECOY= stepped down lol

 

 

49 pages of cry's and its glorious lol You think RAZZy care, let me let you into a little secret THEY have YOUR $$$$$ why would they care, your along for the ride and they will take their sweet time since you the community keep demanding and asking for new mods to be released.

 

 

At some point you the DCS community needs to take a look at your self's and be accountable for your actions and wonder how they got themselves into this mess in the 1st place .... by keep asking for more and then paying for an unfinished module

 

None of this helps and none of it actually confronts the real problem. Passing the blame to people who bought the modules doesn't really make sense when you consider that a good many don't even go on the forums, the discord, or anything and just buy the modules they are interested in. Are they also to blame in your eyes? Are they also responsible?

 

It is true that the community tends to think about wishlists more than they should. It is true that some are probably too quick to defend a developer when they really, really push things to far. Still, that doesn't make this issue any less worthy to confront and all you are doing with posts like yours is to help maintain the status quo as it is instead of trying to find real, honest solutions.

 

Right now, we are at a point where ED might be able to make RAZBAM see the problems we are talking about. It might not amount to much for the Harrier but maybe this will help clarify things for future modules they make. Perhaps it will help RAZBAM to understand what is expected of them.

 

We gotta try to stay constructive about this. Sneering and pointing fingers isn't going to solve anything.

[NineLine]

None of this helps and none of it actually confronts the real problem. Passing the blame to people who bought the modules doesn't really make sense when you consider that a good many don't even go on the forums, the discord, or anything and just buy the modules they are interested in. Are they also to blame in your eyes? Are they also responsible?

 

It is true that the community tends to think about wishlists more than they should. It is true that some are probably too quick to defend a developer when they really, really push things to far. Still, that doesn't make this issue any less worthy to confront and all you are doing with posts like yours is to help maintain the status quo as it is instead of trying to find real, honest solutions.

 

Right now, we are at a point where ED might be able to make RAZBAM see the problems we are talking about. It might not amount to much for the Harrier but maybe this will help clarify things for future modules they make. Perhaps it will help RAZBAM to understand what is expected of them.

 

We gotta try to stay constructive about this. Sneering and pointing fingers isn't going to solve anything.

 

Wise words Mike, thanks.

[Fjordmonkey]

Updated post by Prowler from their Discord:

RAZBAM_Prowler: In release queue

-Damage model logic improved and additional damage parts

- Corrected error in engine efficiency table at high altitudes that was resulting in higher than designed thrust loss at very high altitudes

- Fixed SAAHS paddle disable incorrectly resetting stick trim position and not resetting rudder trim and will now correctly restore rudder trim when released

- Fixed Speedbrake logic based on SME information to extend as long as OUT is pressed and will fully retract when IN is pressed (Allows for partial extension but will always fully retract)

- Corrected Rocker Switch bleeding into MPD bezel

- BUGFIX: Corrected aircraft diverting prior to maneuvering tone envelope

- BUGFIX: Structural load damage no longer instantaneous, now requires sustained over-tolerance for structural failure

[3:02 AM] RAZBAM_Prowler: - BUGFIX: Corrected where large body angular rates (out of control) was resulting in infinite values

- BUGFIX: HUD Repeater too large.

- IMPROVEMENT: Reduced Font Size for EHSD data

- BUGFIX: Dual rack bombs release order

- IMPROVEMENT: Backup ADI cage/pitch adjust Keybinds

- BUGFIX: Pull up cue not appearing when selected.

- BUGIFX: RWR knob increments

- IMPROVEMENT: RWR Minimum Volume value reduced

- BUGFIX: EHSD auto zoom leads to symbology misplaced.

- BUGFIX: MPCD, brightness control buttons behavior

- BUGFIX: MPCD, Moving Map too bright

- Included GUB32 and GUB54

- BUGIFX: Harrier default rocket ranges inverted

- BUGIFX: EHSD decenter display overlay misplaced

- BUGFIX: Seat Height adjustment non-functional (Partial, requires seat animation)

- BUGFIX: RWR partially functional when ON

- BUGFIX: MPCD ECM page retruns to calling page.

- BUGFIX: SS Left now cycles Map Center, Decenter and EW page

Maybe released

- BUGFIX: Harrier, In cockpit rudder trim switch does not function

- BUGIFX: EHSD, Course over ground incorrect in Mag mode

- AGM-122: Removed HUD limitations

Ready for release

- TPOD axis dead zone has been reduced.

- BUGFIX: DMT slaved to AIM9 Seeker.

- BUGFIX: Sidewinder being fired when cycling from AG to AA to AG

- BUGFIX: Comm channel selector not sequencing correctly

- BUGFIX: HUD reject logic inverted

- BUGFIX: AGM-122 Sidearn seeker head does not align with RWR source

- BUGFIX: TPOD in powerup mode when starting HOT

- BUGFIX: Altimeter adjustment knob erratic functionality

- BUGFIX: CRS knob erratic functionality

 

More info that was discussed last night is how the MPCD and HUD graphics are done. Right now the Harrier apparantly uses .DDS-textures, which can suffer from scaling-issues among other things. Here's what Prowler had to say about that:

 

RAZBAM_Prowler: SVG, short for Scalable Vector Graphics. It is basically a text file that says how to draw an image. The most important differnce is that svg requires less memory than the dds texture files.Something to take into consideration with aircrafts with glass cockpits.Also, dds is not scalable and suffers from screen resolution.SVG is completely scalable, it will always draw clear no matter what resiltuion. In fact it looks better in VR than in a screen

 

Would of course have liked to see more posts about this from them here on the forums.

[SGT Coyle]

Back in the day, when those actually existed. But well, it's hard having a proper, printed manual on something that's still in development.

Where you been? It's in "Release" and "Product Sustainment."

 

But! If we were only a couple of days or weeks away from a manual and a long list of gripes worked off the board. A bunch of smiles to boot.

Putting off release, in hind sight, would have been the wiser choice. I think all would agree.

 

Aaaannnnddddd we get Rear Admiral David G. Farragut "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

This drama brought to you by Razbam. "Three Stooges Movies got nothin on us."

[viper2097]

Is this still a bad joke?

No statement from Razbam after a week, but the shout out the upcoming Harrier features on FB and their Discord?

They also announce now the GBU-54 to be included? But no word on all missing/wrong core features like the ARBS etc?

 

Sorry, I can't understand what they are doing.

[norbot]

So there passed now already nearly a week.

Can we expect any official statement from Razbam, or will they stay silent forever?

 

I'm quite sure, we won't see anything from RAZBAM in this thread or in the official ED forum. It would be too simple to answer questions from us users here. They rather spread information on Facebook, Discord and what do I know where. Then everyone can search for information for hours and the whole advertising industry on Facebook & Co also benefits from it.

 

I already wrote in in post #144. It's kind of pathetic. :(

[Fjordmonkey]

Is this still a bad joke?

No statement from Razbam after a week, but the shout out the upcoming Harrier features on FB and their Discord?

They also announce now the GBU-54 to be included? But no word on all missing/wrong core features like the ARBS etc?

 

Sorry, I can't understand what they are doing.

 

Not so hard to understand what they're doing: They don't have a presence here on the forums, and it was sketchy at best even when Decoy was their CM.

 

Until that changes things will most likely continue as before.

 

On the GBU-32 and -54: This has always been ED's task, and once that's complete, it'll also be ready for the Harrier. Why spend dev-resources on something that the main partner is already doing?

 

I'm quite sure, we won't see anything from RAZBAM in this thread or in the official ED forum. It would be too simple to answer questions from us users here. They rather spread information on Facebook, Discord and what do I know where. Then everyone can search for information for hours and the whole advertising industry on Facebook & Co also benefits from it.

 

I already wrote in in post #144. It's kind of pathetic. :(

 

Right now I honestly don't think that coming to the boards would do any good what so ever, unless it's in a locked thread. The community is all up in arms and have their pitchforks out, and any statement from them would be met with outright hostility and attacks. Sure, much of it warranted, and one can argue that we as paying customers have a right to voice our opinions about how they've behaved, but you know as well as everyone else that whatever they say wouldn't be enough to even begin to close that wound.

Edited September 12, 2020 by ShadowXP

[veenee]

. The community is all up in arms and have their pitchforks out, and any statement from them would be met with outright hostility and attacks.

And whose fault is that, hmm?

 

 

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[Fjordmonkey]

And whose fault is that, hmm?

 

 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

I'm not arguing who the fault lies with. That's pretty damn well cut, made, served and known.

 

What I'm arguing is the USE of posting things. We all know that the community will crucify them either way, regardless of what's said. History has proved that time and time again over the last 15 years that I've been here, and whether it's correct to do so or not is completely not the discussion.

 

We can sit and argue back and forth as much as we like. Doesn't change the fact that RB pooped the bucket by not communicating on the boards pretty much at all. And it doesn't change the fact that coming to the forums at this time with basically anything at all, regardless of what it is, will see them stapled upside down to the wall naked by their gonads. Can you honestly say that the community would sit quietly and politely ask balanced and well-founded questions instead of instantly fire off all the broadsides they could, and thus both creating a post that would be heavily moderated and/or shut down instantly?

 

If they want to mend things, drop a patch with major upgrades and improvements on it. Get their heads above the water, and THEN write a post outlining in full honesty what they've done wrong, what could have been done better, how they plan to change it, AND have a presence on the forums as much as possible.

 

That's what I think, anyway. Others will most likely disagree vehemently.

[norbot]

... Right now I honestly don't think that coming to the boards would do any good what so ever, unless it's in a locked thread...

 

 

That would be OK for me. RAZBAM could post on a locked thread, just like Wag's Hornet and Viper Mini-Updates. In this way they could post their news without having to discuss about them. But informations have to be on the official forum - not on Facebook, Discord or other platforms. :smartass:

[Fjordmonkey]

Ït doesn't matter if it's posted to Discord, Facebook and their webpage.

 

As long as it also gets posted, by them, on the boards.

[norbot]

Ït doesn't matter if it's posted to Discord, Facebook and their webpage.

 

As long as it also gets posted, by them, on the boards.

 

I can't really agree. I'm no Facebook or Discord user and I don't intend to be in the future. DCS is an ED product. The RAZBAM modules are made for DCS. So news should be posted on the official ED forum. As much as I remember we bought the modules on ED's site not within Facebook or Discord.

[Fjordmonkey]

Just because you don't use either Facebook or Discord doesn't invalidate the use of those two channels of communication for and to others that do. I use all three. Posting the info on all three won't be any skin off your back.

 

By the same "logic", NVidia should only post the news about their 30x0-series of graphics-cards on their site and nowhere else.

 

Sorry, but that line of thinking is frankly silly in this day and age.

[Baldrick33]

Right now I honestly don't think that coming to the boards would do any good what so ever, unless it's in a locked thread. The community is all up in arms and have their pitchforks out, and any statement from them would be met with outright hostility and attacks. Sure, much of it warranted, and one can argue that we as paying customers have a right to voice our opinions about how they've behaved, but you know as well as everyone else that whatever they say wouldn't be enough to even begin to close that wound.

I agree, it is the nature of forums (not just this one). Nineline stated he was all over it and had taken on board the complaints and would be discussing with the third party. That was a couple of days ago, yet rather than give just a little time for discussions to take place and a statement prepared we have a further ten pages of comments. Everyone has to say their piece. Unfortunately although each and every comment may seem justified it just becomes white noise and constantly repeating. It is why we have community managers to sift through and summarise, having devs engage in loads of individual conversations in these threads only exacerbates the resource constraints.

[OPEC]

Can we all relax now a little bit?

 

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[norbot]

Just because you don't use either Facebook or Discord doesn't invalidate the use of those two channels of communication for and to others that do. I use all three. Posting the info on all three won't be any skin off your back.

 

By the same "logic", NVidia should only post the news about their 30x0-series of graphics-cards on their site and nowhere else.

 

Sorry, but that line of thinking is frankly silly in this day and age.

 

 

That's your personal opinion. Keep on defending RAZBAM an have a nice day.

[The_Dan]

Can we all relax now a little bit?

It is a CAS plane in DCS and there is no proper way to use the DCS JTAC as you can't use the Datalink or enter MGRS coordinates. So no. As long at it is not possible to use the main purpose for the jet, i unfortunately can't relax.

 

In addition to this, a huge point for me is the sticky TGP axis. And i doubt that the adjustment of the dead zone will fix this.

 

I personally can relax if the Harrier can be used for CAS without workarounds, regardless of systems accuracy (we have to live with the fact that RAZBAM isn't on the same quality level as ED or HB).

[Fusedspine33]

Ït doesn't matter if it's posted to Discord, Facebook and their webpage.

 

As long as it also gets posted, by them, on the boards.

 

 

That simply isn't true! They have banned a wide swath of PAID IN FULL customers for simply seeking info on the state of repairs for bugs and plans to finish the module across multiple platforms.

 

Yes, some were asking for it with sarcastic name calling and trolling but FAR TOO MANY were not. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely! Razbam has abused their authority across those platforms where there is no oversight by ED.

 

If RAZBAM has the time to post on Discord or Facebook they have the time to post here. Part of the ongoing complaint is that they aren't required to use these forums as the primary form of communication with DCS customers for DCS modules.

 

RAZBAM is going to have to deal with the salt, until their performance improves significantly over time. Much like the other 3rd party that lost confidence here. No one knew that 3rd party was working on a another module and they, at first responded poorly, but were able to have the professionalism to look inward and determine they made a mistake by not keeping an eye on sustainment for their existing module. They took it on the chin and we as customers were quite able to evaluate their response, accept their answers and timeline and put our grievances to the side to give them what they said they needed to catch up.

 

One patch isn't likely going to make up for the loss of confidence. It is no coincidence a large patch is being prepared collaterally and outside of this thread.

 

 

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[epoch]

I love the Harrier. Have done since day 1. Sure, it's not up to scratch compared to other modules, but it's still a blast. And there's nothing like trying to land on the Tarawa, at night, in bad weather (current lighting issues notwithstanding).

 

 

It’s out of early access. Good.

The product DOES NOT meet the official product description, that is what I based my buying decision on.

 

So ED and Razbam are officially stating that they HAVE NOT MET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRODUCT they sold.

I want my money back. I could care less about product sustainment or whatever they decide to name it.

The product is not complete and doesn’t match the description.

Is it a scam?

If not, refund.

 

I am serious.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, digital content should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

 

Actually, if you based your buying decision on the published product specifications, that turned out to be untrue, then this is likely not Consumer Rights Act territory. You are in fact asserting that you entered into a contract (of sale) with a third party (ED) and that you were misled into doing so (product specs untrue). That's covered by the Misrepresentation Act (1967). I'm guessing you're in the UK so if you're dead set on going legal, then in the first instance you should speak to your local council's Trading Standards Office. I suspect though that you would need to seek redress directly from ED via your own legal representation. Enjoy!

 

In reality you probably won't get anywhere, and will spend more than your initial outlay on the product.

 

I bought the tickets to see Top Gun, but I was given hot shots with Charlie sheen. Lol.

 

Who put that crab there?

[Cornelius]

Can we all relax now a little bit?[...]

 

 

Many here have evolved long time ago past the stage of acting like a dog that wags its tail when a bone is presented to him

Edited September 12, 2020 by Cornelius

[OPEC]

Many here have evolved long time ago past the stage of acting like a dog that wags its tail when a bone is presented to him

Thats your problem, not mine.

 

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