invulnerable HIND

[silverdevil]

hello all. i could not figure out where to post this so i thought here would be a good place. i have been using a mission that i modified for A-10C II. i have played it many times (49+) and always get defeated. this time all the way to the end i had one HIND i knocked off the tail and it crashed but did not get destroyed. i pummeled it with guns, rockets and grazed with an MK82. i did not get a complete mission because of this. i am sharing my TRK and TACVIEW for perusal and editorial. please let me know your thoughts. thanks.

 

edit link broken

Edited December 28, 2020 by silverdevil
broken link

[BIGNEWY]

file link is not working sorry

[silverdevil]

thanks @BIGNEWY not sure what's up with the link. it is over the 5 MB (14+ MB) limit so i cannot do a direct upload. but the file is where i put it. is there a restriction on ZIP?

 

http://www.pcwiseman.com/downloads_files/invulner-HIND.zip

 

please copy / paste the link to a browser for download.

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks,

 

when I test all seems ok to me, the HIND does have significant armour, maybe just an unlucky engagement?

 

[rayrayblues]

I have the same problem. Also with the HIP. Both are un naturally strong, like they're made of reinforced concrete.

Very hard to destroy, even when they are obviously in pieces and on fire, even the AI gunners won't shoot at it, because they know it's

already dead, you cannot get a destroyed msg. You just keep getting:   "Mi-24 or Mi-8 damaged"

On the other hand, when I'm flying my HIP, somebody sneezes and down I go. I think the DM needs a little work.

[silverdevil]

8 hours ago, rayrayblues said:

I have the same problem. Also with the HIP. Both are un naturally strong, like they're made of reinforced concrete.

Very hard to destroy, even when they are obviously in pieces and on fire, even the AI gunners won't shoot at it, because they know it's

already dead, you cannot get a destroyed msg. You just keep getting:   "Mi-24 or Mi-8 damaged"

On the other hand, when I'm flying my HIP, somebody sneezes and down I go. I think the DM needs a little work.

 

12 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thanks,

 

when I test all seems ok to me, the HIND does have significant armour, maybe just an unlucky engagement?

 

thanks to both of you. i do think DM is getting changes so i will just have to wait. as a side note i switched the friendly ground units from an APCs to strykers and they crushed both the BRDMs and the HINDs. AI vs AI. A-10 (me) just watched.

[BIGNEWY]

happy to take a look at track replays, if you have short examples we can always review. 

 

[silverdevil]

8 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

happy to take a look at track replays, if you have short examples we can always review. 

 

thanks @BIGNEWY . unfortunately i am now staying alive longer so the tracks are getting longer  

Edited December 29, 2020 by silverdevil

[Art-J]

Concrete AI Mi-24s and Mi-26s ( maybe others as well) have been a thing for years. A question of simplified AI FM and DM. Just get used to it. That being said, if you engage them from above and hit them somewhere around rotor head and engines, they tend to burst in flames and fall quickly.

[rayrayblues]

2 hours ago, Art-J said:

Concrete AI Mi-24s and Mi-26s ( maybe others as well) have been a thing for years. A question of simplified AI FM and DM. Just get used to it. That being said, if you engage them from above and hit them somewhere around rotor head and engines, they tend to burst in flames and fall quickly.

 

I do that and sometimes the don't register as destroyed.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 5:24 AM, BIGNEWY said:

happy to take a look at track replays, if you have short examples we can always review. 

 

I will try to make a track for you ASAP.

[Flappie]

I know this thread is initially about AI Hind helicopters but I think both AI Hind and AI Hip share what I'd call a magical armor.

 

Here's a track + video of a Hip surviving 5 MANPADs direct hits. It eventually exploded... after a bad landing. Pilots were still alive before the crash. The 2 other AI Hip were less lucky, and don't even talk about mine (my pilot gets killed very fast).

 

 

AI_Mi-8_versus_MANPADs.trk

Edited December 30, 2020 by Flappie

[rayrayblues]

I tried to set up a short track, but they don't

play back correctly and showing me crashing after 5 minutes when I didn't.

IDK how you can diagnose anything when the track is messed up.

 

Anyway, I didn't have too much trouble destroying Mi-26 or Mi-28 however, the Hinds and Hips were tougher.

The main thing I noticed was a difference in the bullet holes. I was using a Huey with miniguns & rockets.

Even though they were obviously destroyed, it didn't always show "destroyed" in DM indicator on the right side of the screen  

and the AI gunners continued to shoot and rack up hits. The final debriefing screen shows them dead and continuing to take hits.

Here are some examples of the different bullet holes, all from the same gun. The track also doesn't play the way things happened

and it really didn't demonstrate the issue at hand.  Oh well, I tried.   

 

 

DM-3.trk

Edited January 1, 2021 by rayrayblues
Typo

[rayrayblues]

Okay.......I think the real issue here, at least for me is that they aren't all that hard to kill, but once dead, they continue to take damage.

The markers (if you use them) do not go out indicating that they are still a viable target. You continue to engage even though they have been killed.

AI gunners don't seem to know that they are dead either and keep wasting ammo instead of firing at live targets.

Once a unit has been killed, it should be taken out of the game, the AI should no longer engage and the marker should disappear so

that players and AI will not waste time and ammo on a dead target. Because it continues to receive and register damage, it's easy to think that they are still alive.

In this track here, the Mi-24 is counted as dead at 01:28, but continues to take and register damage.

DM-4.trk

[silverdevil]

@rayrayblues thanks for the testing. i have many times hit various targets and they are definitely not going to be fighting anything afterwards and stay alive. the problem here is that if you are playing a mission and the goal is to destroy all threats, you will not complete the mission. but there have been various discussions about damage models and that will eventually get fixed.