Would you be willing to buy multiple F-4 modules?

[Baco]

So if Razbam does the E and HB does the J you would not pay 70 US for each? I would....

 

You see its never ever a Just add a pod.. .You change the cockpit you need to reprogam it, you change the 3D model, yo need a new one or you end up with a frankenplane looking awkward.

 

Heatblur just changed the engines on the A, an it took one full year to releas it.. from B to A, only engines difference and 1 year development..

 

You guys make it sound like changing variants is a trivial affair an it is not. And that is why till today HB is the only one that has offered two different variants of a same plane. Not Even ED (who build the APIS every 3rd party uses) has offered several variants of a same plane... Don´t you think there is a reason for it?

 

EDIT:   Oh wait, ED has... The A10C II after a lucrative government contract that payed for the development of the C II  

Edited February 27, 2021 by Baco

[G.J.S]

57 minutes ago, Baco said:

So if Razbam does the E and HB does the J you would not pay 70 US for each? I would....

 

You see its never ever a Just add a pod.. .You change the cockpit you need to reprogam it, you change the 3D model, yo need a new one or you end up with a frankenplane looking awkward.

 

Heatblur just changed the engines on the A, an it took one full year to releas it.. from B to A, only engines difference and 1 year development..

 

You guys make it sound like changing variants is a trivial affair an it is not. And that is why till today HB is the only one that has offered two different variants of a same plane. Not Even ED (who build the APIS every 3rd party uses) has offered several variants of a same plane... Don´t you think there is a reason for it?

 

EDIT:   Oh wait, ED has... The A10C II after a lucrative government contract that payed for the development of the C II  

 

Cool your engines brah, I’m pretty sure everyone was just spitballing about possible types to lay on the table . . nobody said it would be walk in the park easy to just churn out one variant after another without breaking a sweat.

 

The majority know it takes time, time spent by very talented people to generate that which we use.

True, there are a few that think you just got to close your eyes and click your heels, and BAM! New model . . . But the rest of us know.

 

The jist of it was the assumption that should this discussions F-4 materialise, all following subtypes would be from the same developer, it wouldn’t make any sense for let’s say HB to bring out the ‘J’ & ‘S’ , ED to shell out the ‘E’ , RAZBAM to launch the ‘K’ & ‘M’ , and, I don’t know - Dinky Toys to work on the ‘C’ & ‘D’ .

 

It was the “same developer” assumption that the possible pricing structure came from, and it would make sense - spend $280 on 4 subtypes, or rather around $125 for the same 4 subtypes? 
First type - full whack at $70 let’s say, no problem, but even with the reduced pricing of follow on types that depend on you owning the initial $70 one, because in effect it’s a captive audience the developer gets good inflow of cash, and the end user can have a whole stable of F-4 types without having to sell a kidney.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by garyscott

[Northstar98]

5 hours ago, Baco said:

So if Razbam does the E and HB does the J you would not pay 70 US for each? I would....

 

You see its never ever a Just add a pod.. .You change the cockpit you need to reprogam it, you change the 3D model, yo need a new one or you end up with a frankenplane looking awkward.

 

Heatblur just changed the engines on the A, an it took one full year to releas it.. from B to A, only engines difference and 1 year development..

 

You guys make it sound like changing variants is a trivial affair an it is not. And that is why till today HB is the only one that has offered two different variants of a same plane. Not Even ED (who build the APIS every 3rd party uses) has offered several variants of a same plane... Don´t you think there is a reason for it?

 

EDIT:   Oh wait, ED has... The A10C II after a lucrative government contract that payed for the development of the C II  

 

 

What about Aerges? They're giving us 4 different flavours of the Mirage F1, including the more modernised F1M (v. late 90s/early 2000s)

 

And as for ED, what about the L-39?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Northstar98

[killkenny1]

Not interested in F4, but I will mimic what Baco has said - I would also buy different variants of the same aircraft if I like the aircraft.

[HWasp]

I think it could be a good business model for long term product sustainment to release new versions of the same aircraft as paid upgrades. 

 

Start with a more basic model, with less capabilities ---> release a new more capable version in the next two years, while the base model gets an overhaul to bring it up to the new standards (I mean graphics, effects). 

 

I would have really liked if we had recieved an F-18A and F-16A first, then later on the C versions as a paid upgrade. 

 

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

No

[G.J.S]

5 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

What about Aerges? They're giving us 4 different flavours of the Mirage F1, including the more modernised F1M (v. late 90s/early 2000s)

 

And as for ED, what about the L-39?

 

I just picked those developers (Dinky Toys included) as an example, what about Aerges? 

 

3 hours ago, killkenny1 said:

Not interested in F4, but I will mimic what Baco has said - I would also buy different variants of the same aircraft if I like the aircraft.

Nobody has said they wouldn’t buy different variants of the same aircraft - I would too - what you seem to have misunderstood is buying different variants of the same aircraft from different developers.

 

 

[killkenny1]

2 minutes ago, garyscott said:

Nobody has said they wouldn’t buy different variants of the same aircraft - I would too - what you seem to have misunderstood is buying different variants of the same aircraft from different developers.

 

I will buy EVERY version of a plane I have interest in regardless of the dev.

Clear now, or should I draw you a picture?

Edited February 27, 2021 by killkenny1

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, garyscott said:

I just picked those developers (Dinky Toys included) as an example, what about Aerges?

 

It was a response to Baco about variants of aircraft in DCS, Aerges seem to be giving us the biggest range of aircraft, with fairly significant differences between them. We're getting the F1CE, which is the interceptor version; F1BE, which is a 2-seat trainer; F1EE which a multi-role and the F1M, which is a more modernised variant (v. late 90s/early 2000s, compared to the rest which are 70s/80s aircraft).

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Northstar98

[shadepiece]

Not sure if said already, but I think if you own one variant, then you get a discount on other variants. This concept seems to be the precedent set by A-10C and A-10C II. I happily own both, but I am happy that the II was cheap for me.

 

Discount doesn't need to be that steep for a whole different variant, but somewhere around 50% off for those who own a variant already. 

[Northstar98]

36 minutes ago, shadepiece said:

Not sure if said already, but I think if you own one variant, then you get a discount on other variants. This concept seems to be the precedent set by A-10C and A-10C II. I happily own both, but I am happy that the II was cheap for me.

 

Discount doesn't need to be that steep for a whole different variant, but somewhere around 50% off for those who own a variant already. 

 

Absolutely, the prices should be representative of the workload involved.

 

For instance, the difference between an E and J/S is more substantial, than between the K and the M.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Northstar98

[G.J.S]

2 hours ago, killkenny1 said:

 

I will buy EVERY version of a plane I have interest in regardless of the dev.

Clear now, or should I draw you a picture?

 

I hope you do when and if it comes to fruition. But yet again you have misunderstood.

Would you really buy let’s say one version of an F-4 from each dev at full price, even when it’s pointless seeing as it would be easier (for everyone!) just from one dev?

 

Got your etch-a-sketch ready?

 

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

It was a response to Baco about variants of aircraft in DCS, Aerges seem to be giving us the biggest range of aircraft with fairly significant differences between them with the Spanish variants of the Mirage F1 namely the F1CE - which is the interceptor version, F1BE which is a 2-seat trainer, F1EE which a multi-role and the F1M which is a more modernised variant (v. late 90s/early 2000s compared to the rest of them which are 70s/80s aircraft).

 

True. 

 

[upyr1]

12 hours ago, Baco said:

Heatblur just changed the engines on the A, an it took one full year to releas it.. from B to A, only engines difference and 1 year development..

 

You guys make it sound like changing variants is a trivial affair an it is not. And that is why till today HB is the only one that has offered two different variants of a same plane. Not Even ED (who build the APIS every 3rd party uses) has offered several variants of a same plane... Don´t you think there is a reason for it?

we understand the fact that developing a module is rather complex. It took Heatblur about a year to develop the F-14A and all they did was change the engines.  We greatly appreciate what they have done. 

1 hour ago, shadepiece said:

Not sure if said already, but I think if you own one variant, then you get a discount on other variants. This concept seems to be the precedent set by A-10C and A-10C II. I happily own both, but I am happy that the II was cheap for me.

 

Discount doesn't need to be that steep for a whole different variant, but somewhere around 50% off for those who own a variant already. 

I know the discount really helped convince me to buy the A-10C.

[Max Thunder]

Yes, but there should be a upgrade pricing structure. So if you buy one module the upgrade price to a different version should be not more than 15€. 

[killkenny1]

4 hours ago, garyscott said:

I hope you do when and if it comes to fruition. But yet again you have misunderstood.

Would you really buy let’s say one version of an F-4 from each dev at full price, even when it’s pointless seeing as it would be easier (for everyone!) just from one dev?

 

Got your etch-a-sketch ready?

 

 

Hope it's all clear now.

Yes, I would buy any variant of the plane which interests me even if it's from various devs, meaning it will be a full price purchase.

Of course it would be easier and cheaper to buy from a single dev, but that is not a deciding factor in my purchase. It's always about the airframe.

Just give me the module and I will decide if I need it in my life or not.

[G.J.S]

1 hour ago, killkenny1 said:

 

 

Hope it's all clear now.

Yes, I would buy any variant of the plane which interests me even if it's from various devs, meaning it will be a full price purchase.

Of course it would be easier and cheaper to buy from a single dev, but that is not a deciding factor in my purchase. It's always about the airframe.

Just give me the module and I will decide if I need it in my life or not.

Everything after “hope it’s all clear now” , you don’t work for government procurements do you? You know, the ones that pay $25000 for a toilet seat when there are cheaper ways to do it? 
(I can’t believe you actually drew me a picture, screw flying Phantom again, YOU just made my week!) 

[DaWu]

I wouldn’t buy a single variant. Not interested in museum tech. Give me a f22

[HWasp]

Won't buy F-22, not interested in sci-fi stuff. Give me more museum tech.

Edited February 28, 2021 by HWasp

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, killkenny1 said:

 

 

Hope it's all clear now.

Yes, I would buy any variant of the plane which interests me even if it's from various devs, meaning it will be a full price purchase.

Of course it would be easier and cheaper to buy from a single dev, but that is not a deciding factor in my purchase. It's always about the airframe.

Just give me the module and I will decide if I need it in my life or not.

I hope that if we ever see differnt developers working on differnt variants, that they will have an agreement to share or license code so that no one has to reinvent the wheel

[Scrofa]

Aviodev gives 2 models of the C101 on the same purchase.

 

It would depend on the changes implemented between variants. Some variants are very different, others, not so much. I don't think a new variant requires as much rework as some people claim, and the people in Heatblur probably have much more on their plate than just working on a different engine model for the F14. The fact that it takes them one year to release doesn't mean they're allocating 100% of their resources there.

[upyr1]

58 minutes ago, Scrofa said:

Aviodev gives 2 models of the C101 on the same purchase.

 

It would depend on the changes implemented between variants. Some variants are very different, others, not so much. I don't think a new variant requires as much rework as some people claim, and the people in Heatblur probably have much more on their plate than just working on a different engine model for the F14. The fact that it takes them one year to release doesn't mean they're allocating 100% of their resources there.

I suspect that may have been the case. Though on the subject of the F-4 from my understanding the B,C and D basically could use the same flight model. The Avionics and cockpits would differ though especially in the back, and the D will have the most advanced avionics. Other than that you could probably start with the B then go from there. 

[killkenny1]

20 hours ago, garyscott said:

Everything after “hope it’s all clear now” , you don’t work for government procurements do you? You know, the ones that pay $25000 for a toilet seat when there are cheaper ways to do it? 
(I can’t believe you actually drew me a picture, screw flying Phantom again, YOU just made my week!) 

 

Nope, Imma engineer, but I do work in aviation, meaning I do use (or rather tell people to use) certified components, which really are expensive.

[Baco]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:04 AM, Northstar98 said:

 

What about Aerges? They're giving us 4 different flavours of the Mirage F1, including the more modernised F1M (v. late 90s/early 2000s)

 

And as for ED, what about the L-39?

 

Yeah well the first F1 is not out yet I will count them when they deliver...   

 

The L 39 and the C-101 are almost the same aircraft with or without gunsigths NOT a different variant with different avionics and different 3D shapes, different FM, different Cockpits...

See the difference? the MB 339 MOD did that also....  

 

My point is really simple: if it requires resources then PAY for it. Do not ask for free stuff from people that expect a return from their investment, time and dedication.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Baco

[Northstar98]

30 minutes ago, Baco said:

Yeah well the first F1 is not out yet I will count them when they deliver...   

 

The L 39 and the C-101 are almost the same aircraft with or without gunsigths NOT a different variant with different avionics and different 3D shapes, different FM, different Cockpits...

 

True, though the ZA does have a different armament system to the C (includes a whole new panel), the C-101CC has several cockpit differences also to support the weapons.

 

The Gazelle is an obvious one I missed, which yes, does have differing avionics, though mostly only as far as sighting systems are concerned.

 

30 minutes ago, Baco said:

My point is really simple: if it requires resources then PAY for it. Do not ask for free stuff from people that expect a return from their investment, time and dedication.

 

Well, yes... I'm not expecting variants to be done for free.

[G.J.S]

49 minutes ago, killkenny1 said:

 

Nope, Imma engineer, but I do work in aviation, meaning I do use (or rather tell people to use) certified components, which really are expensive.

 

So did i ! And i used certain things that were rather expensive too . . . how similar we must have been!   What did you fly?