not planned Easy mode AAR

[=475FG= Dawger]

I haven't figured out when AAR would actually be useful in DCS outside of some canned CAP silliness. The maps are too small. The tankers are too dumb to be where you need them and who flies the fighters guarding the gas station?

Of course, I only fly MP PvP and don't go for the milsim aspect at all, so I guess I miss out on all these AAR "opportunities".

Auto AAR would be exactly like Rearm/Refuel on the ground. A game workaround that everyone accepts as required for gameplay. I don't see all the heartburn about adding it.

 

[Pillowcat]

Switchable AI is better solution to the task and many others on things easyfication, and we currently almost have it in a form of Alt+J(?) relocations between units. _{Has read only first post here.}

[MAXsenna]

Switchable AI is better solution to the task and many others on things easyfication, and we currently almost have it in a form of Alt+J(?) relocations between units. _{Has read only first post here.}

Fair point I guess. You mean like telling your wingmen to go to tanker, and then switch to one that's done, and then back?
Not sure if that's possible in all DLCs/missions due to scripting.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Gunnar81]

36 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Auto AAR would be exactly like Rearm/Refuel on the ground. A game workaround that everyone accepts as required for gameplay. I don't see all the heartburn about adding it.

 

This is a really good idea, fly to within a certain radius of the tanker and open the refuel/rearm menu and drag your fuel slider over to full and done deal. Would be a nice option, I would most likely do an actual AAR but its there for those who want it.

[MAXsenna]

This is a really good idea, fly to within a certain radius of the tanker and open the refuel/rearm menu and drag your fuel slider over to full and done deal. Would be a nice option, I would most likely do an actual AAR but its there for those who want it.

That is actually an excellent solution!

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[Akula]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Fair point I guess. You mean like telling your wingmen to go to tanker, and then switch to one that's done, and then back?
Not sure if that's possible in all DLCs/missions due to scripting.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Haha now I’m gonna say that’s cheating

 

just kidding. If you can do it, go for it! You paid for the game and ALL the crap you need to run it. Enjoy it the way you want. Choice my friend

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

19 hours ago, Akula said:

Of course….. Yes you nailed it!!!!!
 

“Let’s restrict our brand to hard core enthusiasts and ignore the possible increased revenue from a fresh wave of new and enthusiastic players who see all the YouTube videos and are super keen to experience this wonderful game. Let’s not expand the appeal and desire to improve the game. Let’s not even try to increase our revenue or attract new customers because we just want HARD CORE serious SIM pilots. Let’s keep all the *noobs* out”  

Said no game developer, ever.

 

I mean, the brand is kind of built around those core enthusiasts and to appeal to them. DCS isn't going to see a huge explosion in the player base. Even if it did add an automated AAR method or some kind of assist, which it really could use, let's not pretend it's going  to really jump the player base significantly.

Because, really? Automated AAR implies a mission that requires you to stay aloft for quite sometime. The kind of people turned away by the difficulties of AAR are also going to be turned away by the length of mission that'd require it.

Again, to reiterate, it'd be an accessibility change that ED should consider. Just a simple key stroke to enable some form of automation or assist? It'd be a nice change for those looking to be a part of that core enthusiast market.

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

I mean, the brand is kind of built around those core enthusiasts and to appeal to them.

That is your assumption, which seemingly is contradicted by ED marketing copy from the past years ("Can you fly DCS with only Mouse and Keyboard? YES!"). It would be a bad business move to actively restrict your market to a niche. ED is positioning DCS to appeal to as many people as possible, for obvious reasons. They are a business venture, not a religion or country club. Since they follow a one-off purchase model, it is therefore imperative that they grow their customer base - or wither financially. Erecting or keeping entry barriers (real or imagined) is counter-productive business-wise. 

1 hour ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

let's not pretend it's going  to really jump the player base significantly

Agreed. And (OP's assertion notwithstanding) few people are claiming that "straight" AAR is holding back DCS. Assisted (in whatever way) ARR could only be one additional accessibility facet among the many that are already available. It would make the game more accessible to some players. The point being: You are the customer, you decide which you want to use. Three-Minute repairs? Auto-start? Labels/Symbols? Padlocked enemies? Easy Comms? Unlimited Fuel? Assisted AAR? There is only once certainty: a choice not offered is a chance missed. So if you offer a choice, it may help to grow the customer base. Not offering it guarantees not taking that chance.

Edited September 19 by cfrag

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Because, really? Automated AAR implies a mission that requires you to stay aloft for quite sometime. The kind of people turned away by the difficulties of AAR are also going to be turned away by the length of mission that'd require it.

That's not a safe assumption. An assist's appeal wouldn't be limited to casual players looking for quick action. Additionally you'll have less experienced players with poor fuel management skills that will find a way to run out of fuel even on short missions. Being interested in flight sims doesn't make one good at flight sims, which is why DCS is full of assists already despite being a hardcore simulation. Virtually every hardcore simulator offers assists precisely because the playerbase is rarely totally homogeneous.

[Red_Dragon]

Just in case my throttle breakes and I've noisy axis insted of a precision one I'd like to see this options exist. 

 

..or I will be in another city without my main devices.. I think I would be glad to be able to continue flying and not give up AAP

*AAR

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

That is your assumption, which seemingly is contradicted by ED marketing copy from the past years ("Can you fly DCS with only Mouse and Keyboard? YES!"). It would be a bad business move to actively restrict your market to a niche. ED is positioning DCS to appeal to as many people as possible, for obvious reasons. They are a business venture, not a religion or country club. Since they follow a one-off purchase model, it is therefore imperative that they grow their customer base - or wither financially. Erecting or keeping entry barriers (real or imagined) is counter-productive business-wise. 

Agreed. And (OP's assertion notwithstanding) few people are claiming that "straight" AAR is holding back DCS. Assisted (in whatever way) ARR could only be one additional accessibility facet among the many that are already available. It would make the game more accessible to some players. The point being: You are the customer, you decide which you want to use. Three-Minute repairs? Auto-start? Labels/Symbols? Padlocked enemies? Easy Comms? Unlimited Fuel? Assisted AAR? There is only once certainty: a choice not offered is a chance missed. So if you offer a choice, it may help to grow the customer base. Not offering it guarantees not taking that chance.

 

Is it contradicted? Sure, but that just means ED's marketing is leading. I really wish ED wouldn't emphasize that the use of a mouse and keyboard is usable when it's going to offer the end user an experience that is subpar. After all, there are fighting games on PC that you can use your keyboard with. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, though. It's going to leave a bad taste in the occasional newcomer's mouth when they try M+KB, find it not to their likely, and then get further dissuaded when they seek out help and get told they really need to spend money on a stick.

Sure, they are a business and the end goal of business is make more cash, but at the same time? DCS is still not going to see a huge player base. And that's perfectly fine.

This isn't exclusionary at all, this is just the reality of our genre; it isn't 1999 anymore and Falcon 4.0 isn't pushing systems. I think we've all accepted that one.

Still, more accessibility is a good thing when it's treated like how DCS (and the genre at large) does treat it: training wheels. Especially for those without good foundational skills, something like an auto AAR would be a godsend. It's not going to encourage people to join, but it could definitely help some delve deeper and stay. The only thing that'd hold it back are those who would insist on its use to not be included in events and activities they perform. I'd probably never use it, but I can think of a few in my group who probably would.

And, of course, they'd storm to the forums to point out that this is 'Digital Combat Simulator' ad nauseum as per usual.

One benefit of it's addition? Better basket physics and boom operations. That, alone, is a great reason to support its inclusion as it could demand an overhaul of those systems. That'd be my statement to anyone against it.

[Akula]

Wow the fear mongering continues. 

WE CAN’T POSSIBLY HAVE AUTO AAR!!!! People Will….. Will….. Will NOT GIT-GUD!!! AND IT’S GONNA MAKE OTHERS NOT GIT-GUD!!!! And players will, Ugh - USE IT!!!!  OH NO!!! PANIC!!!!

Really now?

Offer the choice and let players decide where on the skill spectrum they want to be. They paid for the game and everything they need to run it. 
 

 Squadrons can pick and choose their recruitment criteria and do what they want. Because they also have a choice. what is soooooo scary about that?!!! 

The reality is that It’s more inclusive and some of the hardcore players here don’t want it why????? - Because they learned it the hard way and feel robbed if they see “noobs” do it automatically….. And that makes them mad. That’s all I can discern from that kind of thinking. It has absolutely nothing to do with killing a brand or making things de-evolve into Ace Combat, which is what the critics here want you to think. 
 

Popcorn anyone?

[cfrag]

3 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

And, of course, they'd storm to the forums to point out that this is 'Digital Combat Simulator' ad nauseum as per usual.

It's hardly our fault that some people do not know what the world 'simulator' really means -- I love to show them the 'flat earth simulator' to make that point. And when people go the 'it's not a game, it's a simulator route,' we can show this. 

Hasn't helped for years, won't help in the future. Hopefully we get an API for refueling so we can put this tired thread (to which I'm contributing, so I'm part of the problem, I know) to rest.

[BIGNEWY]

Folks I have merged this thread with the older one, its important to keep discussion civil and constructive. 

I appreciate some of you would like this easy refuel feature but at this time it is not planned. 

 

As for the game / simulation discussion. 

DCS is yours to have fun with however you like, a sandbox, for some its a game for others its a simulation, at the end of the day it really does not matter, enjoy your flight your way. 

thanks