Let's talk about landing

[Donut]

I am looking for some tips and advice on landing the Tomcat.  I am having difficulty with staying on speed during the approach turn and final approach.  I get all set up and on speed AoA during the downwind, but it all falls apart as soon as I make the approach turn.  The Tomcat does not stay on speed like the Hornet does.  Just using throttle inputs like in the Hornet does not seem possible in the Tomcat, but Chuck's Tomcat Guide says not to use and longitudinal stick input during the approach turn and final approach.  However, I cannot regain a stable on speed AoA without stick input and more trimming.
 

What is the proper technique?  I am sure I am doing something wrong, but I don't know what.

[unlikely_spider]

I've read first hand accounts from pilots who said that the adage "throttle for attitude, stick for speed" does not apply so neatly to the F-14, and they had to use stick back/forward along with the throttle during approach anyway. So I certainly use both.

Also since you mention the turn, remember to increase throttle during the turn so that you don't lose too much airspeed.

[draconus]

It all starts with fine approach and the break. The more you practice the more close to the numbers you will be. You have to add power since you lose lift at the bank. Not by much though since the final turn is a descent. Just enough to keep a donut.

Edited April 19, 2021 by draconus

[Spurts]

After the break I open the DLC, set auto-throttles, and trim to level flight.  Once that is done the Tomcat is the easiest landing plane on the planet.  Trim and Auto throttles will make sure you are always on speed and AoA.  DLC means you never have to move the stick forward or backward once on final.

[Skysurfer]

Pitch for speed/AOA, power for descent rate. DLC for fine adustments. It's a constant dance of power, stick inputs and trimming to keep it on speed, on glidepath. Literally forget everything you know from the Hornet.

[The_Tau]

Just remember that in RL when over deck you shouldn't use DLC at all "to fall down" on deck. It would do too much stress on airframe

[Skysurfer]

1 hour ago, The_Tau said:

Just remember that in RL when over deck you shouldn't use DLC at all "to fall down" on deck. It would do too much stress on airframe

 

Talking about field landings here and the use of DLC is very much the norm up until touchdown.

 

 

[TLTeo]

That video was really interesting, I remember Victor205's old guide in which he said pilots weren't supposed to use DLC around the boat all that much. I realize that a field landing is less stressful, but in that video they are not exactly putting the jet down gently either.

[Spurts]

1 hour ago, The_Tau said:

Just remember that in RL when over deck you shouldn't use DLC at all "to fall down" on deck. It would do too much stress on airframe

If I need DLC at touchdown that means I didn't use it right on final, but I hear you.

[RaisedByWolves]

 

 

starting at 30:10 ish.  Listen to LSOs call for DLC. 

[Katj]

Doing a case 1 I just trim it to on-speedish while descending on the downwind, then use the stick to stay on-speed until trap.

I say "on-speedish" because depending on your rate of descent you may want to trim slightly fast/slow. E.g. if in level flight you need to be slightly fast on the trim if you want to end up on-speed when descending on final.

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, RaisedByWolves said:

starting at 30:10 ish.  Listen to LSOs call for DLC. 

 

What's the 56K-callout?

Trap-weight?

[Skysurfer]

Yeah it might have been that different squadron had different techniques, maybe even differences on the B/D cat. The footage speaks for itself I guess.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Skysurfer

[TLTeo]

To be fair those are Case 3s in terrible conditions, might be different from Case 1.

[unlikely_spider]

2 hours ago, TLTeo said:

... in that video they are not exactly putting the jet down gently either.

Man, and I even feel a little bad if I have a hard-ish landing in DCS. Those guys really don't flare at all. I know you're not supposed to in the Tomcat, but damn, those gear must be quite robust.

[TLTeo]

2 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Man, and I even feel a little bad if I have a hard-ish landing in DCS. Those guys really don't flare at all. I know you're not supposed to in the Tomcat, but damn, those gear must be quite robust.

You should see my Viggen landings

[Skysurfer]

9 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Man, and I even feel a little bad if I have a hard-ish landing in DCS. Those guys really don't flare at all. I know you're not supposed to in the Tomcat, but damn, those gear must be quite robust.

 

Grumman Ironworks baby!

[Donut]

Thank you everyone for the help and tips.  Using longitudinal stick inputs (elevator) during the approach turn and on final has improved my ability to stay on speed immensely...now I just need to continue practicing the technique. 
 

I think Chuck's Guide should maybe be edited to reflect this.  I will notify him and see what he thinks.

[Katj]

Yeah it might have been that different squadron had different techniques, maybe even differences on the B/D cat. The footage speaks for itself I guess.

My guess is that it might not be a natops fuel state call, but an "We're overweight because we didn't feel like dumping any fuel in this weather". They could still call out the fuel like everyone else in less extraordinary conditions.

[Castor Troy]

On 4/20/2021 at 2:43 PM, unlikely_spider said:

Man, and I even feel a little bad if I have a hard-ish landing in DCS. Those guys really don't flare at all. I know you're not supposed to in the Tomcat, but damn, those gear must be quite robust.

 

If I land that hard in DCS with the F-14, the flaps no longer work.....