Notching AIM-120C [R-77], but still a hit

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I think what dundun is using is a macro that lets you spam (for example) 20 chaffs within 0.1 seconds with 1 press. 
That is not possible to do with your hands, and is not possible to program in the real aircraft. 

However If it's just programming existing/possible (in real life) CM programs then obviously there's no problem, but he's talking about 15 chaffs per second. 

I do not think that is possible in real life, and it's also not possible to do this in game with just your hands. That makes it cheating.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[dundun92]

20 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

I think what dundun is using is a macro that lets you spam (for example) 20 chaffs within 0.1 seconds with 1 press. 
That is not possible to do with your hands, and is not possible to program in the real aircraft. 

However If it's just programming existing/possible (in real life) CM programs then obviously there's no problem, but he's talking about 15 chaffs per second. 

I do not think that is possible in real life, and it's also not possible to do this in game with just your hands. That makes it cheating.

 

wrong. F-16 CMS for example can do exactly that IRL

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

But can the mig or su27 ?

Edited May 1, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Max1mus]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:57 PM, GGTharos said:

Yes, but it may also be possible to remove the filter in such circumstances.  Does that actually happen?  We don't know.

Notching does not work against the sky in DCS. You need to be in a lookdown situation.

Chaff works against the sky, though much worse, requiring very slow speeds.

That is, against air to air missiles and radars. SAMs can be notched at any altitude.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Max1mus

[Svend_Dellepude]

4 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

I think what dundun is using is a macro that lets you spam (for example) 20 chaffs within 0.1 seconds with 1 press. 
That is not possible to do with your hands, and is not possible to program in the real aircraft. 

However If it's just programming existing/possible (in real life) CM programs then obviously there's no problem, but he's talking about 15 chaffs per second. 

I do not think that is possible in real life, and it's also not possible to do this in game with just your hands. That makes it cheating.

 

 

It's a game and dundun has a programmable joystick. Don't really see the issue here. 

[GGTharos]

 

5 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

and is not possible to program in the real aircraft.

 

Yes it is.  You can program just about any CM release pattern into the aircraft.

 

5 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

I do not think that is possible in real life, and it's also not possible to do this in game with just your hands. That makes it cheating.

 

It just makes you a whiner.  As pointed out previously, all you're going to get for your opinion is a roll of the eyes, everyone and their grandma has been doing this since LOMAC came out in 2005.

[Teknetinium]

GG has a point, there are worse things people are doing. I hope ED remove 15 sec warming up jammer on FC3 so we all can apply jammers with no hypocrisy. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Teknetinium

[Svend_Dellepude]

1 hour ago, Teknetinium said:

GG has a point, there are worse things people are doing. I hope ED remove 15 sec warming up jammer on FC3 so we all can apply jammers with no hypocrisy. 

 

 

At least the timer ( if they want to keep it) could be for cooling down and not warming up.

[Teknetinium]

37 minutes ago, Svend_Dellepude said:

 

At least the timer ( if they want to keep it) could be for cooling down and not warming up.

Same rules regarding jammers should apply 4gen aircrafts or we could go the road clamming some aircrafts jammers should be better or worse with no intel behind it.  

Edited May 2, 2021 by Teknetinium

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

16 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

 

Yes it is.  You can program just about any CM release pattern into the aircraft.

 

 

It just makes you a whiner.  As pointed out previously, all you're going to get for your opinion is a roll of the eyes, everyone and their grandma has been doing this since LOMAC came out in 2005.

If you use a macro to do something that the aircraft or your hands are not capable of then you're cheating.  
Apparently this multiplayer community hasn't evolved/matured yet at all if everybody thinks that's ok. 

And you should have realized by now that i don't care much about rolling eyes, roll as much as you want you know i'm right. 
 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[GGTharos]

That's fair, no one cares about your faulty opinion either

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Using macro's to dump 100 chaff in 0.1 seconds is cheating (and pathetic) . Nothing faulty about that and you know this but just won't admit. That's ok though. 

Look below ... "just macro's" : 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[GGTharos]

The community doesn't think so, therefore it is not cheating - you're the only who thinks that.  You've chosen the wrong hill to die on.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

If you indeed speak for "the DCS community" , i can tell you that the DCS community is the only community that thinks the above is not cheating. 
If the DCS online community ever grows past the 100 or so people, that will change i assure you. 

We agree to disagree, even though i still think you're just too stubborn to admit that your stance is the wrong one  



 

[dundun92]

I'll repeat: IRL you can program your CMs to do whatever the heck you want them to do. Including 20 chaff per second. Do they? No, because IRL CCM isnt a dice roll. But the point is, the program it IRL to do what optimally defeats the threat. And in DCS 20 chaff/second happens to be optimal. You need to get this idea of DCS being some fair and "balanced" game out of your head. War isnt fair. Rather than whining about people finding ways to defeat missiles, how about you actually get good at defeating/employing them yourself?

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

What would you think if someone used a macro that lets him dump 100 chaff instantaneously in a satal match? 
Or, do you think the macro usage in the video's i posted is ok ? 

I'm talking about using macro's to go outside paramaters of the actual aircraft and the programming of DCS/other games. 

I think it's an interesting discussion, because certainly not all macro's are automatically cheating. 
But if you use a macro to do something that should not be possible, then in my opinion it is cheating. 


 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[dundun92]

13 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

What would you think if someone used a macro that lets him dump 100 chaff instantaneously in a satal match? 

I wouldn't care. They wont have any left after that soo....

 

14 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Or, do you think the macro usage in the video's i posted is ok ? 

It's not relevant, as this isnt some FPS that's supposed to be fair and balanced. Again, you need to get this idea out of your head that this is some fair and balanced game. IRL, again, you can program CMs to do whatever you want. Including 20 chaff per second.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Are you honestly not understanding what i'm saying or are you just acting dumb to avoid actually answering the question?

You can't program CM's to do "whatever" you want in real life and not in DCS. Surely you know there are limits rofl ? Well.... see my first sentence   

If you are using macro's to do things that the game does not intend you to do ... ah whatever you know very well what i mean but you're just sticking your fingers in your ear and going lalalala.  

And what point are you trying to make with this comment about DCS not being 'fair' ? 
Are you saying that because this isn't an fps shooter nothing matters ? 
Ok then might as well write a god-mode cheat and have some fun onine ? 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[GGTharos]

51 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Are you honestly not understanding what i'm saying or are you just acting dumb to avoid actually answering the question?

 

Are you honestly not understanding that no one cares for your judgement, and that this is something that everyone has been doing since 2005?   What exactly is  your end game here?  So far all you've contributed is slinging mud at HB and now complaining about a practice in the game that has been happening for over a decade and basically 'no one cares'. 

 

51 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

You can't program CM's to do "whatever" you want in real life and not in DCS. Surely you know there are limits rofl ? Well.... see my first sentence   

 

Yeah you pretty much can.  BTW, before you make some comment about this being flares, chaff and flares get tossed out the same dispenser.

 

 

 

[dundun92]

1 hour ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Are you honestly not understanding what i'm saying or are you just acting dumb to avoid actually answering the question?

Neither.

1 hour ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

do things that the game does not intend you to do

Says who? You?

1 hour ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Are you saying that because this isn't an fps shooter nothing matters ? 

No. I'm saying that war isnt fair, and you need to stop whining because people find a perfectly legitimate and realistic way to gain a tactical advantage (as has been said and backed up, you can literally program CMs to do whatever you want IRL), and instead spend that effort actually getting good at the game.

[Cmptohocah]

Technically I think this is more of an exploit, rather than cheating but on the other hand there is no option to program the CM in FC3, so macros are the next best thing.

[Svend_Dellepude]

So if I program a switch to lower gear, lower flaps and trim pitch for landing, that would also be considered cheating according to @Csgo GE oh yeah? Because the game doesn't have a button that does just that?

What about if I program the trigger to launch two missiles with a timed interval when holding the trigger, instead of having to press it twice?

[Harker]

3 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

[...] there is no option to program the CM in FC3, so macros are the next best thing.

This is a case where macros are perfectly acceptable. Otherwise you need to spam the button like crazy. I also used to make CM programs for the F-15C back in the day, it was the only way to use CM effectively.

56 minutes ago, Svend_Dellepude said:

So if I program a switch to lower gear, lower flaps and trim pitch for landing, that would also be considered cheating according to @Csgo GE oh yeah? Because the game doesn't have a button that does just that?

What about if I program the trigger to launch two missiles with a timed interval when holding the trigger, instead of having to press it twice?

IMO, it depends on whether or not the real aircraft has a switch that does all that. If someone doesn't have enough buttons on their setup, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to bind gear+flaps together. The trim is another issue, however, since trimming for landing is part of the pilot's workload and actually takes some practice (like in the F-14).

Tangential, but that specific example of trimming for landing also cannot work without some sort of feedback from the game, because the trim setting depends on weight, speed etc, so a macro getting that info and using it to send appropriate presses to the trim keys would definitely be considered cheating. But we're not talking about that. If the macro instead just presses the trim key for 2 seconds though, I wouldn't classify it as cheating, more of a convenience thing. Same for the trigger, although again, kind of a useless macro here. It'd be cheating if it was an action like "trigger + change target + go STT + trigger" or whatever.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

13 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

 

Yeah you pretty much can.  

 

 

 

"pretty much" is key here. 
Because there are limits . Once you use macro's to go beyond these limits it's technically cheating. 
That's all i'm saying. 

Also i'm very disappointed in the way you chose to write your post. Bringing up other things completely unrelated in an attempt to create bias and steer away from the topic at hand. 
Pretty weak move and disappointing. -1 respect. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Mad_Shell]

sorry for the ping @BIGNEWY , but at this point the thread derailed totally off-topic...