How do you think about Russian ATGM?

[plane00]

I miss more effective Russian A2G(air to ground) missile , especially ATGM.

At least , in LOFC vikhr is not as effective as MAverick.

 

According to internet resources, AT-16's range is about 500m(?)~10km,

but in the game, at close distance, it doesn't hit targets accurately

I can't destroy targets more than 2 at one pass with 100% accuracy.

 

Value of Vikhr is questionable in LOFC.

Edited September 25, 2008 by plane00

[159th_Viper]

Then you're doing it wrong ;)

 

Practice - and you'll learn effective deployment parameters of the Vikhr, with Ripple-Fire passes accounting for 4-5 kills per pass. A typical engagement from RMax should see you at about 2000m AGL, IAS at 450-500km/h in a Shallow dive towards the target - as said practice and play around and see what works best for you at the end of the day.

 

Granted the above does not accord with RL - However in the LockOn reality it's good fun and those Devil-Darts are very effective :)

[Cosmonaut]

One or two in one pass is probably the most effective and realistic way to use a ground attack aircraft. In a sim it's easy to get caught up in the "how many can I destroy" mentality but in reality, with all the unseen ground threats, the idea is to strike fast and escape. If you need a second run then choose another route, if possible, and run in for another go at the target.

 

Although I understand this is a sim and its fun to blow stuff up and that's what 4 FAB 100's are for ;)

 

Edited September 25, 2008 by Cosmonaut

[Ironhand]

One or two in one pass is probably the most effective and realistic...

I believe that, for the Vikhr, it's one. The system only supports one Vikhr at a time. EDIT: per launch cycle. You can't launch two and shift the 2nd to a new target after launch.

 

Rich

Edited September 25, 2008 by Ironhand

[Renato71]

I believe that, for the Vikhr, it's one. The system only supports one Vikhr at a time. EDIT: per launch cycle. You can't launch two and shift the 2nd to a new target after launch.

 

Rich

 

Hm, only one? I can make an average 4 in a classical column setup, no less then three. Personal record is 6 in one pass, but on that occasion I was a bit lucky. In nightime, 3 max.

[GGTharos]

That's because your vikhr is not properly modeled. The beam itself changes shape as the vikhr moves down-wind, and as such it wouldn't be able to support vikhrs that were more than a small fraction of a kilometer apart from each other in range. They'd just lose the beam and lawndart.

 

In other words, with the real system you can salvo a pair at the same target, but you won't be doing any multiple launching and walking of the beam to different targets. Each target must be engaged separately.

[S77th-konkussion]

Another spectacular crash at the corner of of LOMAC & reality.

[plane00]

Firing before locking target is dangerous challenging.

"Skilled su-25t pilot can destroy up to 3 targets per one pass"----this is what I've read before on internet resource

not 1 kill per 1 pass to easy prays

[GGTharos]

You get one kill per engagement. That's how the system works, period. N/A LOFC.

 

You want to attack a new target? You wait for the hit on the first one, then lock up the second, and launch. By flying a zig-zag pattern you can delay closing with the target enough to hit several targets in one pass. But you don't get to do it in one lasing.

[Pilotasso]

The A-10 is still better to hit and run tactics at the same range the vikhr is used. The Su-25 is better for anti rad missiles.

[Case]

The A-10 is still better to hit and run tactics at the same range the vikhr is used. The Su-25 is better for anti rad missiles.

You mean the Su-25T, which indeed brings a mean SEAD package.

 

But to be honest, there's nothing more satisfying than air-to-ground in a Su-25A. You really have to fly that plane. You have put yourself over the fact that you have to look at the instruments to fly and navigate it, but once you've done this, it is so much fun!

:joystick::pilotfly:

[Renato71]

Not discussing anything about real life, as I believe that plane00 was talking about LOFC. He says so in his first post :)

 

I never fire Vihr from short range, under 5 km, unless low on fuel, high on Vihr and making one final pass, hence not giving a damn and firing 2-3 Vihr on a single target. In any other circumstances - always from a maximum distance. Fire the Vihr only if you acquire a target at 15-20 km away, and no less then 7-8 km.

 

Height and speed depend on "future plans". If I plan to hit more then 2 targets, then I go very high (3000-3500 m) and very slow (350-450 km/h). If there is no need to attack more then two targets, I go as low as 1500 m and as fast as 550 km/h.

 

Never go extremely low, especially bellow 200 m - Vihr spiral around and will hit the ground up to 2 km before the target, while in his lower part of the "loop".

Never go to high, above 5000 m, as you will have to turn nose down to fire each of the following Vihrs, losing too much altitude and gaining too much speed in the process. Also, you could overfly the target and risk a brake of lock.

Never go too slow, as you could stall your plane.

Never go too fast, as you will travel too much of a distance by the time you want to launch second Vihr. There will be not enough time for a third one.

 

Depending on the target spread and layout (column or scattered group), I launch successive Vihrs at 7-10 sec apart. If pause is larger then 12 sec, in most cases laser will overheat by the time 3rd Vihr reaches the target.

 

That's because your vikhr is not properly modeled. The beam itself changes shape as the vikhr moves down-wind, and as such it wouldn't be able to support vikhrs that were more than a small fraction of a kilometer apart from each other in range. They'd just lose the beam and lawndart.

 

Are you sure about the beam shape? I do not see what that has to do with laser sensor on Vihr? Beam changes slightly (becomes narrow) as your aircraft gets closer to the target, not as weapons get closer.

 

That also implies that you cannot maneuver the aircraft at all, so the (first) Vihr will not "escape" out of the beam.

[Majesco]

I can't destroy targets more than 2 at one pass with 100% accuracy.

Value of Vikhr is questionable in LOFC.

 

I just say: your skill is not really good :P

I can destroy 3 targets at one pass with Vikhr, of course i've enough time (60 secs) to track them

 

Note: Do not come too close to target, ATGM's trajectory won't correct

[GGTharos]

Are you sure about the beam shape?

 

Yes.

 

I do not see what that has to do with laser sensor on Vihr? Beam changes slightly (becomes narrow) as your aircraft gets closer to the target, not as weapons get closer.

 

The laser grid projector changes the beam width during the missile's time of flight so that the beam is always 7m across more or less, when the Vikhr is flying in it, as that is what the sensor expects in order to be able to stay in the beam.

 

That also implies that you cannot maneuver the aircraft at all, so the (first) Vihr will not "escape" out of the beam.

 

You can maneuver the aircraft, but not so much as to induce intolerable angular velocities of the target.

[Shaman]

you've done this, it is so much fun!

:joystick::pilotfly:

 

and then with as with our Su-25 it just is, you catch left or right engine fire, shut off the engine.. and moments later explode like always :hehe:

[RedTiger]

 

That also implies that you cannot maneuver the aircraft at all, so the (first) Vihr will not "escape" out of the beam.

 

Actually, if you watch one of Wags' producer notes for BS, IIRC you have to line up the targeted vehicle with a designator on the HUD to even get a launch authorization. So in other words, yes, your movement is extremely limited.

[Boberro]

I never fire Vihr from short range, under 5 km, unless low on fuel, high on Vihr and making one final pass, hence not giving a damn and firing 2-3 Vihr on a single target.

 

Sometimes I fire from 1.5 km and I noticed to hit I always try to bank left\right plane and very light nose up, hits efffectivity in my case is high then :)

But it doesn't change fact I shouldn't do any special maneuvers to destroy target from Vikhr which can destroy target from RMin about 500m?

 

In any other circumstances - always from a maximum distance. Fire the Vihr only if you acquire a target at 15-20 km away, and no less then 7-8 km.

 

Yep, firing from max distance - often with override 12 km is good practie to destroy many targets per run :)

 

 

Never go to high, above 5000 m, as you will have to turn nose down to fire each of the following Vihrs, losing too much altitude and gaining too much speed in the process. Also, you could overfly the target and risk a brake of lock.

 

U can fire Vikhr from extremally angle (even almost 70 degrees I didn't count) without LA and it goes to target, so high alt isn't problem :)

 

Depending on the target spread and layout (column or scattered group), I launch successive Vihrs at 7-10 sec apart. If pause is larger then 12 sec, in most cases laser will overheat by the time 3rd Vihr reaches the target.

 

Yes depends on column layout, I try to fire 2 first Vikhrs, then manually turn off laser and turn on it back, then I don't get overheat and can use it much longer than normal of course I musn't forget to turn it off before it will be damaged....

 

I just say: your skill is not really good :P

I can destroy 3 targets at one pass with Vikhr, of course i've enough time (60 secs) to track them

 

Note: Do not come too close to target, ATGM's trajectory won't correct

 

Of course. After practice u'll be able to destroy many targets per run, it needs only excercise ;]

 

Few things couldn't be realised in real life but in game can eeh ;]

Edited October 2, 2008 by Boberro

[RedTiger]

Yep, firing from max distance - often with override 12 km is good practie to destroy many targets per run :)

 

I'm going to beat GG to the punch with a question; let me guess...no launch override on the real thing?

[GGTharos]

The real thing can fly about 7km anyway - only a little more if launched from an aircraft + altitude ;)

 

While there exists a launch override, it is an emergency launch because you cannot jettison the pylons. In that case, the vikhrs come off the tubes like rockets. The laser does not fire in that case.

 

And again, the beam is kept in a certain width at a certain time (to coincide with missile flight time) - the laser grid is generated when you pull the trigger; I suspect there might be some form of override in the event that your rangefinder gets busted, but I haven't run into it (or the need to use it as, again, the launch parameters represent the actual maximum range capabilities of the system).

 

In short, if you use launch override, assuming it exists, you're taking a low-pk shot. N/A LOFC, of course.

[159th_Viper]

...In that case, the vikhrs come off the tubes like rockets....

 

Hoo-Haa :gun_rifle:

 

Now that right there will make for an Interesting In-Your-Face scenario :D

[GGTharos]

HAHA :D

 

Vikhr spam! :D Just to be clear of course - they' re unguided.

[Kula66]

Another spectacular crash at the corner of of LOMAC & reality.

 

Very Funny ... sad but true.

 

On thread, I guess all those little ATGMs give you 4x more shots than an A-10 ...

[Renato71]

HAHA :D

 

Vikhr spam! :D Just to be clear of course - they' re unguided.

 

Been there, done that - can hit anything. Just makes a lot of smoke and scares the s*** out of people :D

 

Btw, thnx for all info on real thingy.

[Jace11]

Another thing about the Vihkr... (not sure if it's been discussed before)

 

But its a great Air-to-air missile in the hands of the AI. Hokums and Su-25T when flown by the AI have shot me down many times with the Vihkr. They are very accurate and can't really be spoofed, and I have only managed to evade one EVER though I'm usually ! in an A-10A when I get shot at by them.

 

I have tested them in the Su-25T against enemy fighters and I can't even lock them up in the TV with or without laser ranging.

 

Unfair... though I guess if you could use them Air-to-air in a multiplayer server, everyone would be bitching about it. But I wish I could stop the AI using them this way... is it possible? Perhaps a line in the missiletable.sht would fix it.

[GGTharos]

You can't fix it. It's fixed in DCS though - the Vikhr is usable in A2A in DCS, in all its mediocrity at doing that job :D