PSA: F-14 Performance/FM Development Status + Guided Discussion

[Baz000]

I zoomed in to the figure a bit but you can see it shows the wheel and 70 degrees

Oh, I also found this about the min radius turn

Edited November 20, 2021 by Baz000

[Baz000]

18 hours ago, IronMike said:

This is something we may be able to fix prior to ground handling improvement, or separately from it. No promise for now though, it will be done as feasible. We'll also revisit suspension and the likes and it may fit there.

Are you guys planning to look into the wheel brakes holding the plane appropriately on engine powerup for a take-off ashore? Because right now before the patch this week they don't (and I assume the patch didn't change this because nothing F-14 related in the patch notes).

I only ask because this may possibly be an extension of "ground behavior"

Edited November 20, 2021 by Baz000

[r4y30n]

Maximum NWS deflection in the real Tomcat is 70 degrees.

I’m aware, just curious why it’s only 45° in game.

[Baz000]

Is it 45 degrees in DCS? I didn't have an in-game protractor to measure.

Maybe someone could peek at it in the DCS model viewer and let us know?

[r4y30n]

Is it 45 degrees in DCS? I didn't have an in-game protractor to measure.
Maybe someone could peek at it in the DCS model viewer and let us know?

...but in DCS: Tomcat we have only 45° deflection and it does help.

This is the post I was referring to. Haven’t flown in a bit, though, so not sure myself. Felt pretty tight the last time I taxied on deck.

[draconus]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:10 AM, Baz000 said:

Is it 45 degrees in DCS? I didn't have an in-game protractor to measure.

Maybe someone could peek at it in the DCS model viewer and let us know?

I did take a look at the model viewer - arg #2 goes from -1 to +1 which translates to nose wheel rotation -90° to +90°. 45 was my first guess by the looks of it but having a closer look it definitely is more, almost 60.

edit: Also the NWS does move a bit when aircraft is stationary (don't know how many degrees it is) but does not allow for full deflection even when light (no stores, 15% fuel).

Edited November 22, 2021 by draconus

[Hummingbird]

Any rough idea when we might expect the next FM update? Just curious.

[fat creason]

On 12/6/2021 at 4:12 AM, Hummingbird said:

Any rough idea when we might expect the next FM update? Just curious.

Not until at least 1-2 updates after the new year. Been too busy with real life things and other things that I can't discuss without getting banned here . There is a minor FM update that's been queued for release for like 5-6 weeks but it hasn't made it out yet as far as I know...hopefully it comes out with the next patch.

Edited December 7, 2021 by fat creason

[Hummingbird]

1 minute ago, fat creason said:

Not until at least 1-2 updates after the new year. Been too busy with real life things and other things that I can't talk about without getting banned here 

 

Completely fair, was just curious  

[captain_dalan]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:03 PM, fat creason said:

Not until at least 1-2 updates after the new year. Been too busy with real life things and other things that I can't discuss without getting banned here . There is a minor FM update that's been queued for release for like 5-6 weeks but it hasn't made it out yet as far as I know...hopefully it comes out with the next patch.

 

Is that minor update related to the very slow part of the envelope, as in landing and around the boat ops? 

[fat creason]

12 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Is that minor update related to the very slow part of the envelope, as in landing and around the boat ops? 

Yeah, it should be one of the last handling updates other than maybe some higher AOA handling stuff (wing rock). Next update should make landing config a bit easier to fly. The rest of the updates will just be performance tweaks for the most part.

Edited December 8, 2021 by fat creason

[captain_dalan]

2 hours ago, fat creason said:

Yeah, it should be one of the last handling updates other than maybe some higher AOA handling stuff (wing rock). Next update should make landing config a bit easier to fly. The rest of the updates will just be performance tweaks for the most part.

 

Roger that! Thanks for the info  

[Spurts]

Time for us to re-learn BFM edge cases!

[captain_dalan]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:36 PM, Spurts said:

Time for us to re-learn BFM edge cases!

And i was just getting to know her.... 

Edited December 10, 2021 by captain_dalan

[maxsin72]

22 hours ago, fat creason said:

Yeah, it should be one of the last handling updates other than maybe some higher AOA handling stuff (wing rock). Next update should make landing config a bit easier to fly. The rest of the updates will just be performance tweaks for the most part.

 

Very interesting. About performance tweaks, do you mean also more acceleration or not? Thanks

[fat creason]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:17 AM, maxsin72 said:

Very interesting. About performance tweaks, do you mean also more acceleration or not? Thanks

Yes, acceleration is an aspect of performance.

[maxsin72]

31 minutes ago, fat creason said:

Yes, acceleration is an aspect of performance.

And do you know if the new open beta update will be released during this month? thx

[draconus]

1 hour ago, maxsin72 said:

And do you know if the new open beta update will be released during this month? thx

They cannot tell you but it's a sure thing unless some tragedy happens.

[maxsin72]

15 hours ago, draconus said:

They cannot tell you but it's a sure thing unless some tragedy happens.

Thank you for the answer, i hope tragedies will not happen and not because of the update

Edited December 14, 2021 by maxsin72

[Callsign JoNay]

Sounds like the December update will be Viggen focused. I'm not getting my hopes up for much until Jan.

[cochise]

Great discussion guys, it's been a pleasure reading the last few pages! With regards to the videos as a layman it makes sense that DLC being used more for a shore landing as ground effect is more pronounced for a longer period of time.

What I took away the most from the video of Meagan was how small her throttle corrections were.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, cochise said:

With regards to the videos as a layman it makes sense that DLC being used more for a shore landing as ground effect is more pronounced for a longer period of time.

Ground effect is in play in the last 2-3 feet before touchdown, FYI.

Edit: that's a simplified answer for a fighter jet size aircraft and full on effect.

Edited December 15, 2021 by draconus

[Snappy]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Ground effect is in play in the last 2-3 feet before touchdown, FYI.

No. Technically it comes into play when your’e passing through a height above ground equivalent to your wingspan, so 64ft.
Then it increases non-linearly until reaching the ground.At a height of 20% of your wingspan (which would be 12ft rounded down for the F-14) your induced drag has already been cut by 40% , which is significant. FYI.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Snappy

[draconus]

20 minutes ago, Snappy said:

No. Technically it comes into play when your’e passing through a height above ground equivalent to your wingspan, so 64ft.
Then it increases non-linearly until reaching the ground.At a height of 20% of your wingspan (which would be 12ft rounded down for the F-14) your induced drag has already been cut by 40% , which is significant.FYI.

Yes, the answer was much simplified. Thing is ground effect is too low to have any connection to DLC use on approach.

[cochise]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:46 PM, draconus said:

Yes, the answer was much simplified. Thing is ground effect is too low to have any connection to DLC use on approach.

Point taken. I re-watched the video, they were quite high and out of ground effect when using the DLC