Help! Shore take off and damage flaps

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

It sounds very stupid but I manage to damage the flaps many times when I lower them during take off. Question is: should I even lower them in the first place? If so, how can I avoid damaging them?  Thanks in advanced.

[Hulkbust44]

Flap over speed is 225 kts. Do not use flaps on take off, via the flap lever. You use the maneuver flaps. Maneuver flaps are controlled with the DLC forward and aft commands.

Mobius708

[Skysurfer]

You can use full flaps for takeoff no problem, just make sure to get them moving when passing 180kts. When flying the B - mil. power takeoff only.

[BreaKKer]

2 hours ago, Skysurfer said:

You can use full flaps for takeoff no problem, just make sure to get them moving when passing 180kts. When flying the B - mil. power takeoff only.

It wasn't done for airfield takeoffs. Carrier takeoffs, they were thrown up in the clearing turn for CASE I conditions.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Obviously me being stupid.  Thanks guys.

 

What is the difference between maneuver flaps and the actual flaps?

[Hulkbust44]

Obviously me being stupid.  Thanks guys.
 
What is the difference between maneuver flaps and the actual flaps?

The range of allowed deflection.

Maneuver flaps are controlled via the DLC forward and aft commands.(when DLC is not used)
Landing flaps use the flap lever outboard of the throttle.

The range of motion of the maneuver flaps is shown on the flaps indicator as the small white arc.

Mobius708

[Skysurfer]

8 hours ago, BreaKKer said:

It wasn't done for airfield takeoffs. Carrier takeoffs, they were thrown up in the clearing turn for CASE I conditions.

 

Not true at all. It was absolutely done, especially with any noteable payload on the jet. 

 

Just one example:

 

 

[G.J.S]

33 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

 

For some reason that I can’t correct on a damn iPhone, my response got FUBARd in a way beyond my control, please ignore this post.

Edited June 26, 2021 by G.J.S

[captain_dalan]

6 hours ago, VFGiPJP said:

Obviously me being stupid.  Thanks guys.

 

What is the difference between maneuver flaps and the actual flaps?

Also, maneuver flaps will retract on their own when certain alpha and/or airspeed are reached.

[Uxi]

Doesn't the in game tutorial say to lower the flaps?

[Callsign JoNay]

12 hours ago, Uxi said:

Doesn't the in game tutorial say to lower the flaps?

 

Not the tutorial I played. It suggested maneuver flaps for land based takeoffs, and flaps for CV.

[Dezmond]

It might also be worth nothing that changing direction when the flaps are moving breaks them very easily.

 

So, say, if you press the button to retract the flaps and then, like, press it a couple more times to check it is working the flaps will start to raise, then reverse direction and start to lower again and lock in place.

 

If you press the button/flip the lever *once* as soon as you take off and then forget about them until it is time to land you shouldn't have any problems.

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Callsign JoNay:

 

Not the tutorial I played. It suggested maneuver flaps for land based takeoffs, and flaps for CV.

IIRC, the instructor in that training mission says something like "we are light today, so maneuver flaps will be sufficient" (paraphrasing). I do not recall him to specifically point out that you never use full flaps for land takeoffs.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Jayhawk1971
edited to clarify full flaps

[Dezmond]

I doubt there is anything inherent in taking off with the flaps down that will break them. You catapult off the boat with them down constantly, and some of the missions say the bolter procedure is to keep flaps and gear down then entire circuit.

 

But I do get the impression Heatblur's Subject Matter Experts (ie, former Tomcat pilots etc.) very much frown on the idea of using the flaps for anything other than taking off and landing, so they made them... *realistically* fragile.

 

They are more fragile than the landing gear, so you need to raise them *before* the undercarriage, and you *need* to make sure you are only pressing the flap retract button once.

[Skysurfer]

Again, I don't know who on earth pulled the idea out of their butt that FULL AUX FLAP takeoffs aren't a thing ashore. Ask any SME or literally reference the A/B/D NATOPS. Based on weight and conditions you can do a flaps UP, MANEUVER FLAP or FULL FLAP takeoff. 

 

[sLYFa]

Could you explain what the FULL AUX FLAP position is supposed to be? There is no extra position to drive the aux flaps further down. They come down automatically with the flap handle and only have two positions (up or down).

Anyway, flaps down (i.e. main flaps plus aux flaps) takeoffs are legit and recommended with high payload and/or short runways.

[Skysurfer]

23 minutes ago, sLYFa said:

Could you explain what the FULL AUX FLAP position is supposed to be? There is no extra position to drive the aux flaps further down. They come down automatically with the flap handle and only have two positions (up or down).

Anyway, flaps down (i.e. main flaps plus aux flaps) takeoffs are legit and recommended with high payload and/or short runways.

 

It's the FLAP handle full down, nothing more. The AUX FLAPS only have two positions anyway.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

If flaps can be used during shore takeoff and that I broke them, when should I use then and when should I keep then up?

[Skysurfer]

4 minutes ago, VFGiPJP said:

If flaps can be used during shore takeoff and that I broke them, when should I use then and when should I keep then up?

 

Again, follow the manual. Take off normally, rotate by your computed takeoff speed, on liftoff and with a positive rate raise the gear and raise the flaps passing 180kts. There really isn't much to it and in the two years flying the Tomcat in DCS I have not managed to jam them on a shore takeoff, ever. My assumption is you just keep them down for too long and bust Vfe.

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb VFGiPJP:

If flaps can be used during shore takeoff and that I broke them, when should I use then and when should I keep then up?

Your flaps should be fully retracted before you reach 225 KIAS, and gear before you reach 280 KIAS. Use them depending on your takeoff weight and runway length. 

[Dezmond]

(and, again, don't operate the flap lever repeatedly in quick succession  

 

So. What can break your flaps on a DCS Heatblur F-14 are

 

1:- going too fast (more than about 225 knots)

2:- making any sort of manoeuvre

3:- reversing the direction of flap travel while they are moving

 

Don't do any of those and you should be golden!)

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Dezmond

[Golo]

Just a note here. As I understand it from natops manual, AUX flaps will extend to full down position with just 5° deflection of FLAP handle from up position, not once FLAP handle is full down. So make sure your FLAP handle is ALL the way up when you raise flaps after T/O. Otherwise you might think you have flaps up, but in fact you might have AUX flaps still down and risk damaging them.

[Skysurfer]

Just now, Golo said:

Just a note here. As I understand it from natops manual, AUX flaps will extend to full down position with just 5° deflection of FLAP handle from up position, not once FLAP handle is full down. So make sure your FLAP handle is ALL the way up when you raise flaps after T/O. Otherwise you might think you have flaps up, but in fact you might have AUX flaps still down and risk damaging them.

 

This is true, but with either a keybind of axis this should not be a concern. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

My bad, I use the knob on the left of my T16KM throttle as the flap control, big mistake. Now I use 2 switches, one for full up and the other full down...

[Callsign JoNay]

9 hours ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

IIRC, the instructor in that training mission says something like "we are light today, so maneuver flaps will be sufficient" (paraphrasing). I do not recall him to specifically point out that you never use full flaps for land takeoffs.

 

Ah, you are correct. The instructor says you can use full flaps if desired, but maneuver flaps should be good enough for that particular training mission.