Ka 50 in other countires

[hreich]

Who has them?

[Alfa]

So far only Russia.

 

A version of the Ka-50 was offered as part of a tender for the Turkish airforce(or army), but IIRC they chose an upgraded variant of the AH-1 instead.

[qrazi]

I think the KA-50 in some form or other has also been offered to China and India.

 

IIRC China didn't go ahead, mainly because they have their own combat helo program coming along. Don't know about India though.

[TorwaK]

So far only Russia.

 

A version of the Ka-50 was offered as part of a tender for the Turkish airforce(or army), but IIRC they chose an upgraded variant of the AH-1 instead.

 

Russia is suggested us Ka-50 (Erdogan) model, but already Turkey had bad experince about Russian choppers, so we refused. USA wanted to sell us AH-64D Apache Longbow, but Turkey made a condition that if USA let us to install Turkish software and avionics on Apache as Israel did it. However USA refused. :)

 

At last Turkey bought all rights of Agusto A-129 attack chopper from Italia. Replaced A-129's engine with Boeing Commanche chopper engine, changed foreign avionics with Turkish one. Also going to load Turkish made "Cirit" and "UMTAS" anti tank missiles.

 

They gave a new name which is T-129. It'll be avaliable in 2011.

(video is about old A-129)

 

Edited October 23, 2008 by TorwaK

[mikoyan]

So far only Russia.

 

A version of the Ka-50 was offered as part of a tender for the Turkish airforce(or army), but IIRC they chose an upgraded variant of the AH-1 instead.

 

can you elaborate on that one?

[Groove]

Torwak, your guys army aviation must be very experienced ( I would say as US and Russian aviation ). Are there any english material on this matter?

[Alfa]

Russia is suggested us Ka-50 (Erdogan) model, but already Turkey had bad experince about Russian choppers, so we refused. USA wanted to sell us AH-64D Apache Longbow, but Turkey made a condition that if USA let us to install Turkish software and avionics on Apache as Israel did it. However USA refused. :)

 

At last Turkey bought all rights of Agusto A-129 attack chopper from Italia. Replaced A-129's engine with Boeing Commanche chopper engine, changed foreign avionics with Turkish one. Also going to load Turkish made "Cirit" and "UMTAS" anti tank missiles.

 

They gave a new name which is T-129. It'll be avaliable in 2011.

(video is about old A-129)

 

 

Ok thanks for the clarification TorwaK :)

[Alfa]

can you elaborate on that one?

 

TorwaK just did :)

[mikoyan]

TorwaK just did :)

 

what was the bad experience with the russian helicopter, I ask because my country uses a mix of brands like uh-1h uh-1c, jet ranger, mi-17, uh-60, uh-60 arpia, ka-32 (not sure if we still have it in service we had two, and they ere called t-82s) we had have accidents, but I never saw that the russian build were more prom to accidents.

At the beginning we got rented mi-8, the media started a controversy after two accidents on this type of helicopter, later it was clarified that it was because pilots were not used to such a big helicopter (first accident) for the second one, I don't know what was the reason but I was able to see the fuselage being carried in a truck.

[Alfa]

Well I don't know what TorwaK was refering to Mikoyan :) .

 

As far as I am aware at least the Mi-8 and Ka-27(army and navy workhorses respectively) are renouned for their reliability and sturdiness.

[TorwaK]

Torwak, your guys army aviation must be very experienced ( I would say as US and Russian aviation ). Are there any english material on this matter?

 

Yes Groove I've it.

 

http://www.tai.com.tr/en_menu2.aspx?node=296/298/302&menu_id=5&id=302&img=tai_ana_ust-program.swf

 

 

The ATAK Helicopter Program first started in October 1996, with the aim of providing the Turkish Land Forces Command with 51 firm and 41 optional Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopters, was cancelled by the Undersecretariat for Defence Industries Executive Committee decision dated 14 May 2004. The ATAK Helicopter Program aims to provide the Turkish Land Forces Command with an Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopter that will be; customized according to user needs, produced and provided with integrated logistics support.

[TorwaK]

Ok thanks for the clarification TorwaK :)

 

 

Why Turkish Army is refused to buy Ka-50 Blach Shark?

 

• Before enter Turkish Attack Chopper bidding already Kamov knew it that they don't have any chance at bidding because of Turkish Army have NATO standarts. So Kamov made agreement with IAF (israel aircraft industries) and started partnership to upgrade the chopper and improve electronical capabilities.
  
• Terms of tender Turkey asked two seats cockpit, automatic cannon with turret so Kamov rebuilt the Ka-50 Black Shark and they gave Ka-50/2 Erdogan name. (Erdogan means who borns to be a soldier in Turkish)
  
• Turkish Army is tested Ka-50 Black Shark in Antalya city. Their prejudiced opinions were because of coaxial rotor structure Ka-50 was too heavy and "coaxial rotor structure was not appropriate for attack purposes".
  
• Another big negative point was Ka-50 built on heavy composition. New technology choppers made from light composites.
  

Already Russia tried Ka-50 in Checenia... they had a big disappoinment.

Edited October 24, 2008 by TorwaK

[Pilotasso]

Didnt KA-52 fly in Ethiopia?

[TorwaK]

Didnt KA-52 fly in Ethiopia?

 

No. Kamov sold Ka-52 Alligators to Yemen and they're unique customer:smartass:

[Maximus_G]

A version of the Ka-50 was offered as part of a tender for the Turkish airforce(or army), but IIRC they chose an upgraded variant of the AH-1 instead.

This is true actually. It was an AH-1 variant that won the competition which had been started in 1996.

 

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/turkish-attack-heli-competition-stumbles-again-01263/

Originally launched a decade ago in the mid-1990s, the attack helicopter program first crashed in 2004. Four years of negotiations with Bell Helicopter to jointly produce the AH-1Z Super Cobra failed, largely over major price differences and licensing problems.

In 2005 they started the tender once again, and finally brought it to the end in 2007. The Kamov-IAI proposal was there in both competitions, in 1996 and 2005, though the second time their participation was kinda nominal.

 

---

No. Kamov sold Ka-52 Alligators to Yemen and they're unique customer:smartass:

That is not true.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Already Russia tried Ka-50 in Checenia... they had a big disappoinment.

 

NOT SO DISAPPOINMENT

[Jascha]

Already Russia tried Ka-50 in Checenia... they had a big disappoinment.

 

I'm surprised, because if I recall it correctly, Ka-50's were doing great in this combat environment and the results were highly satisfying.

 

PS. Thanks for the interesting reading Esac.

[TorwaK]

That is not true.

 

Yemen was mentioned as a possible customer for 12 Ka-52s in 2004. After that I don't know what happened exactly.

[TorwaK]

I'm surprised, because if I recall it correctly, Ka-50's were doing great in this combat environment and the results were highly satisfying.

 

PS. Thanks for the interesting reading Esac.

 

Even Russian Army don't buy Ka-50 Black Shark and continue their way with new Mi-28 Havoc squadrons. I think that's enough to understand result of the Kamov's Ka-50 project.

[X-man]

Even Russian Army don't buy Ka-50 Black Shark and continue their way with new Mi-28 Havoc squadrons. I think that's enough to understand result of the Kamov's Ka-50 project.

Not really, The Mi-28 was cheaper and had more commonality with the Mi-24, so the transition would be easier. That doesnt mean Ka-50 was a bad product.

[Boberro]

AFAIK in Russia there are two Ka-50 squadrons so there are more than few in service.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Not to mention that in Russian Army Aviation Mil Mi has very important " friends" in political spheres with the capabilitie to decide wich to buy or not.

 

Kamov dont have this sort of luck ( only in the AV-MF)

[Vekkinho]

Any Black Sharks in recent activities in Georgia?!

[Namenlos Ein]

No.

[Mip...]

As far as i know KA-50 was used with great succes in Chechnya.

KA-50 and Mi-28 are build simultaniously for different purposes.

As of September 2007, there were allready 36 KA-50s in Russia ( wikipedia ), now propably more.

Furthermore the army has a few weeks ago decided to put in Production KA-52 ( rian.ru )