How to counter the notch?

[BeyondBelief54]

Hey guys, 

 

I am a single Cat pilot without a human RIO. Currently trying to find ways to counter 90 degree notch position other pilots do against the F-14. What are the general tactics you use to prevent(or..you know, try to prevent) notch? I usually descend to eliminate ground filter and offset at about 300-350 kts but fail to counter notch. Thanks!

[The_Tau]

Be below the target (radar looking up), Switch to STT (especially Pulse STT, you cant notch that)

[Skysurfer]

Turn off MLC, switch to pulse or get a TCS lock. TCS + Pulse is probably the best option. TCS is technically too good when it comes to ground contract and clouds (not affected by it) but a pulse STT should be fairly reliable apart from getting potentially chaffed. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Skysurfer

[captain_dalan]

Do note, pulse STT won't guide your Phoenixes

[Spurts]

So you need to use P-STT in look-up and "The Great White Hope" to be un-notchable?

[Naquaii]

2 minutes ago, Spurts said:

So you need to use P-STT in look-up and "The Great White Hope" to be un-notchable?

 

No, PD-STT in a look-up situation is the best solution, not P-STT as that doesn't guide the missile after launch.

 

The reason being that PD-STT in a look-up situation above 3 degrees above the horison turns of the MLC and when the MLC is off you can't notch the AWG-9.

 

Close in you can use P-STT as the non-guided AIM-54 is more likely to hit even though only being told what general direction to launch at.

[Kula66]

@Naquaii, interesting ... once a target is locked in PAL mode, is this similar to a PD-STT mode lock?

[Naquaii]

4 minutes ago, Kula66 said:

@Naquaii, interesting ... once a target is locked in PAL mode, is this similar to a PD-STT mode lock?

 

No, all transitional "quick-lock" modes get you into P-STT due to the short range.

[Kula66]

Ok, so if I PAL lock at 14 miles, how does it guide the 54?

 

PS> I too am getting lots of non-guiding 54s when the bandits move into the notch

[Naquaii]

3 minutes ago, Kula66 said:

Ok, so if I PAL lock at 14 miles, how does it guide the 54?

 

PS> I too am getting lots of non-guiding 54s when the bandits move into the notch

 

Like P-STT in all other cases, it tells the AIM-54 what direction to launch in and then it's on its own.

[Kula66]

Ahh, so even with the ACM switch down, it just does an ACM style shot ... but still with the 3 sec delay. That would explain the cranked smoke trails you see in PAL mode I guess.

 

PS> Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated!

[QuiGon]

33 minutes ago, Kula66 said:

Ahh, so even with the ACM switch down, it just does an ACM style shot ... but still with the 3 sec delay. That would explain the cranked smoke trails you see in PAL mode I guess.

 

PS> Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated!

 

No, it will have 1s delay in that case (PSTT with ACM switch/cover down), unless the angle is more than 15°.

 

Here's an overview over the various launch conditions for the Phoenix and the resulting missile behaviour:

  

On 11/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, IronMike said:

1. TWS with range >10NM: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile goes active at 16 seconds TTI (time-to-impact)

 

2. PDSTT with range >10NM: LTE 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target)

 

3. TWS or PDSTT with range <10NM, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch

 

4. PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately

 

5. This also means the in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time

 

Note that the 16 seconds TTI for pitbulling is outdated info and has been replaced by a distance based pitbul activation, which has three settings, that the RIO can set ( SMALL being 6NM, NORM 10NM and LARGE 13NM).

 

@Naquaii @IronMike I think this kind of info is still missing in the manual (or I'm unable to find it).

Edited July 12, 2021 by QuiGon

[Naquaii]

16 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

No, it will have 1s delay in that case (PSTT with ACM switch/cover down), unless the angle is more than 15°.

 

Here's an overview over the various launch conditions for the Phoenix and the resulting missile behaviour:

  

 

Note that the 16 seconds TTI for pitbulling is outdated info and has been replaced by a distance based pitbul activation, which has three settings, that the RIO can set ( SMALL being 6NM, NORM 10NM and LARGE 13NM).

 

@Naquaii @IronMike I think this kind of info is still missing in the manual (or I'm unable to find it).

 

 

This info is in the chapter under weapons and AIM-54 but not a list like that. I'll add it to my list to see if it makes sense to add that.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Naquaii

[BeyondBelief54]

Well thank you guys so much for all the replies, learned a lot. And I want to apologize to Heatblur because I thought they did a bad job on Jester. I was wrong. My failures came from my misunderstanding how the Cat work, especially AWG9. After trying and reading so hard, last night I went 8-0 with Jester on a PVP server, lol. Cat is a beast(if you know how to use it) and Heatblur is just steps ahead any developer working on FF modules.

[Bricker]

This guy is a former Cat pilot that has a series on real air combat tactics. Good stuff.

 

[Lt_Jaeger]

8 minutes ago, Bricker said:

a former Cat pilot that has a series

Smartass mode on : He was a RIO. 

[Victory205]

1 hour ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Smartass mode on : He was a RIO. 

 

It’s good that he is being coaxed into helping with the RIO side of the equation.

 

Since you are being a smartass, then let’s point out that no one called the F14 “The Cat” either. “The Cat” was a devices that launched you off of the ship for a few hours so you could have a respite from dealing with ship’s company for awhile. I’ve heard a few aviators call the F14 “The Tom”, but I never heard that while I was flying it, and the guys are heard use it are pretty drifty in the first place. It was the “F14, the Turkey or the Tomcat”. Some airplanes were never called by their official name. I don’t know if I ever heard anyone call the B52 the Stratofortress, or the A10 the Thunderbolt. The A3 was “The Whale”, I couldn’t remember it’s official name of “Skywarrior” and had to look it up.

 

Missiles didn’t go “pit bull”, never heard the term used, they went “active” either automatically or by command. “Tarmac” is what a “Taxiway”, “Ramp” or “Runway” was made of. Those are the three surface names of an airport. You don’t get “stuck on the Tarmac”, you park on a taxiway or ramp, waiting for a gate.

 

“Boom and Zoom” is a flight sim term. “Fighter Jet” is horrifying media dork term. It’s morphed into a commonly used description by pilots, which tells me that the world is doomed. It sounds like “Racer Car”, or “Sailer Boat” to me.

 

We’re all a bunch of dorks. Might as well admit it now, and get used to never having a date with a normal female (or male if you are an F15 pilot, nothing wrong with that) again.

[Lt_Jaeger]

You won the smartass contest, Sir. 

 

Glad to have you here, too get us straighten out. I'm a (former) GBAD guy (in my country air force (there I am, start shooting at the airforce losers is taking care of that) and have totally different terms for the stuff you mentioned. Figured out very soon in my career that Aircrews and GBAD guys, even so they speak the same language, have a totally different vocabulary. That helped me to get to better terms during times we had to work together to write some books, even so it took a lot of constant effort to ensure we are still on the same page. 

 

So please, keep up the tiring work of setting the vocabulary straight and also straighten out the somewhat "romantic" picture we wannabees have of the 3rd dimension,even so I should know better. I blame it on the time passing and me getting an old fart....

 

 

58 minutes ago, Victory205 said:

Since you are being a smartass

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[Victory205]

Language evolves, but…good grief, “Fighter Jet”?

 

Your Dorkmeter ™ should be pegged.

[Naquaii]

26 minutes ago, Victory205 said:

Language evolves, but…good grief, “Fighter Jet”?

 

Your Dorkmeter ™ should be pegged.

 

Also, imagine that there are actually people out there that think you navy guys would use air force lingo...

Edited August 13, 2021 by Naquaii

[near_blind]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

Also, imagine that there are actually people out there that think you navy guys would use air force lingo...

Having observed an Air Force and Navy flight crew try to communicate, I can say with immense amounts of effort and only minor displays of violence, they can almost understand each other.

 

almost

 

just don't mention 'oblique'

Edited August 13, 2021 by near_blind

[captain_dalan]

10 hours ago, Victory205 said:

 

It’s good that he is being coaxed into helping with the RIO side of the equation.

 

Since you are being a smartass, then let’s point out that no one called the F14 “The Cat” either. “The Cat” was a devices that launched you off of the ship for a few hours so you could have a respite from dealing with ship’s company for awhile....

Back in high school, when i flew the Jane's US Navy Fighters for the first time, this puzzled the hell out of me. No matter which jet i would chose, it was always CAT 1! A-7, F-18, F-14, navalised F-22..... i actually started suspecting the development team could afford to record more sound files for the game