"Air flow over canopy sound has been improved."

[Andartu]

Hello everyone.

 

In the latest DCS 2.7.4.9632 Open Beta update there is a line to the Hornet updates that says "Air flow over canopy sound has been improved."

It is hard to describe, because sound is one of the things that by nature are pretty much a personal opinion and feeling. So this is only my feeling and opinion about it.

So for me at least this new sound update is kinda a bit over the top. I have the feeling that not only the air flow over canopy is just louder, it is also the in cockpit air flow sound coming from bleed air that has been toned up and changed totally.

Difficult to describe, but now there is a pervading growl or rumble that is problematic to me. The first time after the update it gave me actually some headaches. To me it is like the sound is piercing into my head. Its frequency and interval. Then I thought I just might had a bad day, so I tested it the other day too. But is was the same. I do not know if it is realistic, but at least from all the, yeah really hundreds of in cockpit Hornet vids I saw (many with good sound quality), I've never noticed that particular growling or rumbling sound.
I do not have an in game video but here is a IRL video example:

--  Example --
 

And the now introduced sound is also present when idling on the deck or ashore. So it is definitely not only the air flow over canopy sound that was tweaked.

The vacuum cleaner like in cockpit sound of the Hornet was never a problem for me, but this is now something different.

 

My sound settings always were: Hear like in helmet, NO "Loud Cockpit Afterburner Sound" (so unticked), 80% Volume, 100% World, 100% In-Cockpit, 100% Helmet, 100% Switches.

Now I was in the need to bring the In-Cockpit slider down to at least 80% to make it "acceptable" for me without getting headaches after an hour or more. But still there is this rumbling and its frequency that is just too much. And that is not really a solution because it tones down all cockpit sounds. And for me at least the sound is very important, to be able to hear what the jet does.

 

So it also affects other sounds. I still can hear the engines but it is like the need to "hear through" the "growl" to notice them.

Also before the update I had no problem to hear if I am in AB (as said above no "Loud Cockpit Afterburner Sound"). Now I can barely rely on the sound if I am in burner or not. The constant "growl" I am talking about is actually a bit similar to the pre-update (and surely still present) sound of the Afterburner.

Additionally before the update after the fire test, when rotating the bleed air knob, it was very good to hear the air coming through the now opening valves. Not anymore now.

When engines are shut down and canopy closed I now still can hear a much quieter but still changed sound from the outside that has the same frequency as when engines and bleed air running. It is a bit like hearing when putting on tins over your ears.

So the new air flow over canopy is basically fine I believe, it is just the bleed air sound that needs to be toned down.
 

I really like all the other sounds of the Hornet, but with this particular new one something is off.. in my opinion.

 

But, does anyone else have this impression?

Edited July 23, 2021 by Andartu

[RhineHornet]

I concur. Similar impression here. Rumble comes alive after left engine start, audible with canopy open too.
And don't get me wrong ED team, I love love love your Hornet. If its realistic, I am all for it.

Edited July 24, 2021 by RhineHornet

[nighteyes2017]

saw this post just after i started a new topic about this. I do not like the new airflow sound either. its over the top, and the sound loop is really obvious once you hear it. The pitch change gives the loop away and it becomes really annoying. 

 

Its not an improvement, lets go back to what it was please.

[Andartu]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:29 PM, RhineHornet said:

I concur. Similar impression here. Rumble comes alive after left engine start, audible with canopy open too.
And don't get me wrong ED team, I love love love your Hornet. If its realistic, I am all for it.

 

 

All for realism too, but not to a degree where it gives you real problems to stand it.

 

3 hours ago, nighteyes2017 said:

saw this post just after i started a new topic about this. I do not like the new airflow sound either. its over the top, and the sound loop is really obvious once you hear it. The pitch change gives the loop away and it becomes really annoying. 

 

Its not an improvement, lets go back to what it was please.

 

Yes indeed. Was flying with several others last night and they reported the same. Several also got headaches. One put In-Cockpit volume down even to 50% to just be able to fly.

Really hoping this will get reworked. And hopefully very soon.

[Rissala]

There is a new looping engine sound that loops around every ~3 seconds. It is a medium volume and low frequency "airflow" sound, a bit similar to a vortex but in all flight stages. It isn't tied to the anti-fog handle but seems to come from the engines or pressurised air system.

The problems with this:

I have to reduce in game sounds since the sound gets annoying fast.

The "loopy" nature of the sound is in my opinion low quality. You can reliably hear when the loop starts again. This does not belong in the Hornet in my opinion.

And for other suggestions, I'd like to hear more low volume sounds from the fuselage and wings when the pilot is making jerk (rate of change of g) and/or when there is turbulence. This comes from the fuselage tensioning up during external stresses. IRL whenever there is turbulence on any plane, you will hear and obviously feel it. With the feeling part gone on a sim, I think the sound part should be in there.

[Agrrregat]

Hi, there was a topic earlier about that, few felt sick a little with that new noise

I don't hear anything new and I'm flying a lot on Hornet since few months, maybe there is something in device or DCS sound settings?

 

@BIGNEWY@NineLine - Guys, could you please check that?

 

 

 

[Brass2-1]

ED crew, this is getting to me as well-it’s causing rough headaches. Perhaps it could be an option box under “Special”?

[sirrah]

18 hours ago, nighteyes2017 said:

the sound loop is really obvious once you hear it. The pitch change gives the loop away and it becomes really annoying. 

Dammit.. I read this post and now I can't un-hear the soundloop as well

 

When I first heard the new airflow sound I was quite enthusiastic about it, as it gave me that extra bit of speed experience. Maybe if we could at least turn down the effect volume a bit that'd help.

[btd]

Dear all, 

please try this hot-fix - FA18.zip

Unzip it to c:\Users\[USERNAME]\Saved Games\DCS\

 

And let me know how is it, thanks

[sirrah]

4 hours ago, btd said:

Dear all, 

please try this hot-fix - FA18.zip

Unzip it to c:\Users\[USERNAME]\Saved Games\DCS\

 

And let me know how is it, thanks

 

Just tried it and even though I did my best, I wasn't able to hear the "loop" now. The airflow sound still is quite distinct though, which might not be liked by everyone.

 

[btd]

44 minutes ago, sirrah said:

The airflow sound still is quite distinct though

 

Do you mean the sound of the airflow on the ground? with zero-speed?

[sirrah]

56 minutes ago, btd said:

 

Do you mean the sound of the airflow on the ground? with zero-speed?

no, I didn't check that as I've only been flying from a moving carrier  

 

Didn't the airflow sound loop when airborne change as well then? I swear I don't hear it as obvious as before (but I have also been fiddling with the volume settings tbh)

[btd]

3 minutes ago, sirrah said:

no, I didn't check that as I've only been flying from a moving carrier  

 

it's ok then. The airflow sounds are really loud in real life. Of course it depends on speed and Angle Of Attack. 

[Andartu]

2 minutes ago, btd said:

 

it's ok then. The airflow sounds are really loud in real life. Of course it depends on speed and Angle Of Attack. 

Will test the fix, but it is not about the airflow where people getting headaches from. The loop comes to life when starting up the engines on the ground.

[Rissala]

2 hours ago, sirrah said:

 

Just tried it and even though I did my best, I wasn't able to hear the "loop" now. The airflow sound still is quite distinct though, which might not be liked by everyone.

 

I believe this is the anti-fog sound so it is a different thing. I'll test this soon.

[Andartu]

18 hours ago, btd said:

Dear all, 

please try this hot-fix - FA18.zip

Unzip it to c:\Users\[USERNAME]\Saved Games\DCS\

 

And let me know how is it, thanks

 

So after a test flight I would say that hotfix fixed all my issues at least. I can run my In-Cockpit volume back at 100% without getting headaches.

 

Thank you very much for listening and providing this fix  

Edited July 27, 2021 by Andartu

[btd]

Thanks for your feedback. This fix will be included in the nearest official updates.

[Flia]

Even after applying the patch, the sound is still somehow different from what I was used to when I flew in Hornet. It's hard to say if it's better or worse than before.

[Andartu]

1 minute ago, Flia said:

Even after applying the patch, the sound is still somehow different from what I was used to when I flew in Hornet. It's hard to say if it's better or worse than before.

Yes it is. But at least for me now it is definitely just an "air over canopy" sound and not that weird loop that somehow came from the engines before the fix. 

In my opinion that was the problem and it is gone after the fix. 

As I said in my original post, sound is of course quite a personal opinion and feeling. Also quite difficult to describe sometimes. Some hear a growl, some a rumble, some would describe it as something totally different.
 

Realistic sounds, yes please. And a cockpit is a loud place to work at for sure. But not when it provokes headaches when flying in a sim or that it forces you to change volume settings by a good amount to stand it.

 

Anyways, I am happy now. Hopefully you guys too

[SFJackBauer]

15 minutes ago, Andartu said:

And a cockpit is a loud place to work at for sure

But pilots wear helmets and earplugs right? Which is why the sim have option for "Hear like in helmet". Personally I find it strange to have a strong airflow noise with that option selected.

[Andartu]

18 minutes ago, SFJackBauer said:

But pilots wear helmets and earplugs right? Which is why the sim have option for "Hear like in helmet". Personally I find it strange to have a strong airflow noise with that option selected.

 

Yeah right, I always have "Hear like in helmet" enabled too. Well I dunno tbh. I am just an armchair pilot like the most here so I just can guess.

 

But yes in the video I linked in my original post the sound what I call the Hornets "hoover" (vacuum cleaner) sound is dominant but also air over canopy. 

 

Of course all these vids are not "in helmet" sound. There would be a second example, for sure of course also "out of helmet", but here again for me the air over canopy is dominant.

Would be nice to have an IRL Hornet driver to vote on what sound is the dominant sound "In Helmet". Two would come to my mind, but I don't like to call them out here.

[btd]

30 minutes ago, SFJackBauer said:

But pilots wear helmets and earplugs right? Which is why the sim have option for "Hear like in helmet". Personally I find it strange to have a strong airflow noise with that option selected.

 

The overall balance of sounds in the cockpit sounds the same, whether or not a helmet is worn. The sound of the air flow in the FA18 is really very loud and with high speeds it partially drowns out engine noise. And the helmet only gives a decrease in volume and add a low-pass filter. If you feel that the overall sound in the cockpit is too loud, you can simply turn down the volume of the cockpit sounds in the audio settings. In this case, the sounds that fall into your headset (radio conversations, for example) will not be reduced.

[wilbur81]

3 hours ago, btd said:

 

it's ok then. The airflow sounds are really loud in real life. Of course it depends on speed and Angle Of Attack. 

Indeed... and before the advent of modern AoA indications, g-limiters, etc., pilots used that loud rushing sound to tell them that it was time to unload/reduce back pressure. 

[Andartu]

2 minutes ago, btd said:

 

The overall balance of sounds in the cockpit sounds the same, whether or not a helmet is worn. The sound of the air flow in the FA18 is really very loud and with high speeds it partially drowns out engine noise. And the helmet only gives a decrease in volume and add a low-pass filter. If you feel that the overall sound in the cockpit is too loud, you can simply turn down the volume of the cockpit sounds in the audio settings. In this case, the sounds that fall into your headset (radio conversations, for example) will not be reduced.

 

Yeah sure I believe you. And luckily we have that extra slider. But I cannot believe that a sound update is supposed to be that many have to adjust that slider only for not having headaches or simply not being annoyed. I put it down to 80%, another one I flew with to even 50% for not getting his brain melted  

Fine now for me, back to 100%. Lets see.

3 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

Indeed... and before the advent of modern AoA indications, g-limiters, etc., pilots used that loud rushing sound to tell them that it was time to unload/reduce back pressure. 

 

Sure I still do that, especially at BFM.

[SFJackBauer]

42 minutes ago, btd said:

 

The overall balance of sounds in the cockpit sounds the same, whether or not a helmet is worn. The sound of the air flow in the FA18 is really very loud and with high speeds it partially drowns out engine noise. And the helmet only gives a decrease in volume and add a low-pass filter. If you feel that the overall sound in the cockpit is too loud, you can simply turn down the volume of the cockpit sounds in the audio settings. In this case, the sounds that fall into your headset (radio conversations, for example) will not be reduced.

 

Thanks for explaining. Its been so long since I left the "Hear in helmet" option that I did not remembered what was it like without it... I went back to the sim and yeah the difference is significant.

 

Regarding the file you posted, which folder structure should we have once unzipping, because unzipping directly into Saved Games/DCS leaves a folder named FA18/Sounds. I did that and noticed zero changes. I then modified to be inline with the installation  (Saved Games/Mods/aircraft/FA-18C/Sounds) and couldn't find any difference either.

I am testing on Instant Action -> F/A-18C -> Ready on the Ramp. I suppose this should make a difference even while sitting on ramp at idle, right?

 

EDIT: Just to be super clear:

When I extract the file directly to Saved Games/DCS.Openbeta the end result is:

 

C:\Users\[my username]\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\FA18\Sounds\sdef\Aircrafts\FA-18\Cockpit

 

With two files inside it. Is that the correct folder structure?

Edited July 26, 2021 by SFJackBauer