need track replay AI aircraft going “dumb”, flying off map

[boombazookajd]

I’m having a recurring issue with a dedicated server mission and the behavior of the AI. 

 

At various times, and for no obvious reason, units go “dumb” and fly or sail on a continuous path until they get stuck on land OR fly off the map. 

 

I have no obvious entries in my log file of any indications, that is every entry that is present is always there… and this problem is intermittent. 
 

This behavior shows up mostly in my KC-130, KC-135, or E-3. 
 

Behaviors seen: 

1. aircraft took off from Kutaisi and continued on takeoff heading until off the map. 
 

2. aircraft took of and upon reaching waypoint 1, began a very small circle orbit. 
 

3. aircraft continued straight while in race track orbit and flew off map. 

 

4. Carrier continued sailing on path rather than turning to next waypoint and stopped at land. 
 

to counter this, I set up a trigger zone to destroy the tanker if it left a general area however it seems like the game loses track of the unit as it didn’t die (yes, the trigger was set correctly). 

 

This leads me to think the game is just going “dumb” and dropping assets. 

 

id like to know if anyone has seen this behavior before and what might be causing it. 

 

I see this behavior whether playing the mission on a server or single player on my gaming cpu. 
 

ive tried isolating the issue but I cannot, there are no correlating events that seem to trigger this behavior. 

[Avalanche110]

Yes I have experienced this many times also.

it only seems to happen to units that are Scripted and occurs on dedicated server and single player.

I have seen units that were supposed to orbit over Kutaisi end up in Syria when reviewing the Tacview recording.

The 3d models break when the fault occurs and the units appear locked in a 2 dimensional frame of reference.

( Hard to describe. I will try and get some screenshots)

 

I will try and get more information so we can substantiate a proper bug report.

But for now, I'm just glad that I'm not the only one experiencing this.

 

[boombazookajd]

I need to work on getting the track small enough. I can’t just put the .trk in here because it’s too large. 

 

I have some screen shots of this happening while watching the mission in F10 map as well as tacview. 

 

I can’t figure out what “breaks” the units. 
 

Once these units break, there’s no replacing them, and it is at random times.. it’s not like it happens specifically at one time. 
 

definitely stay in touch and if you want reach out via pm or we can link up on discord and see what we come up with. 

[Flappie]

1 hour ago, boombazookajd said:

I need to work on getting the track small enough. I can’t just put the .trk in here because it’s too large.

 

Tracks are big because they contain the mission. If your mission has  custom sounds and pictures, this will make the track bigger.

[boombazookajd]

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

 

Tracks are big because they contain the mission. If your mission has  custom sounds and pictures, this will make the track bigger.

I have all of those. Custom sounds, custom briefing pictures..

 

I’ll see what I can do to get a track. There’s nothing in the log but I’ll attach that maybe there’s something there that I’m not reading as important but it there’s no correlation with the “break” and a log entry.

[Ironhand]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:36 PM, boombazookajd said:

…I need to work on getting the track small enough. I can’t just put the .trk in here because it’s too large…

ZIP it and upload it as a compressed file. The limit for ZIP files is larger. Unless it’s still too large even for that.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ironhand

[boombazookajd]

I'll check it out. I have a mission where this happened to the ground convoy now. It drove clear across the map and into the Black Sea. 

[TLTeo]

On 9/23/2021 at 5:47 AM, Avalanche110 said:

it only seems to happen to units that are Scripted

Not necessarily, I have seen aircraft fly off into the distance when they were supposed to simply attack a ground target in front of them. No lua scripts involved, just the DCS AI doing its usual dumb thing.

[boombazookajd]

I can't upload anything. 5mb is simply impossible to compress to. I can get the trk down to 8mb. 

i will gladly get this file onto a google drive or whatever sharing platform but here's what i know:

at 1910 in mission time, a convoy of vehicles arrives at a small airfield outside of Kutaisi. This convoy is a training mission to provide training pilots experience searching for a moving target. 

at 1920, the vehicles begin to freeze on the road until only 1 is left moving. The end of mission debrief has a corresponding entry of units "dying" around the 1920 mark. 

Tacview show's these vehicles as continuing on their heading when they "died". 

The track replay shows these vehicles as just freezing in place, as if the game loses track of them. There is no reason for them to die, no enemy units around. They simply drive in a large loop from Zestafoni to Kutaisi. 

 

Edit: When this happens to an aircraft, it typically doesn't freeze in mid-air, although this has been seen. Typically the aircraft just fly off into the distance. 

Edit 2: I can't even upload an example of the mission because 5MB is laughably too small. Fix this, seriously it's 2021. Get with it. 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by boombazookajd

[Flappie]

In the meantime, you can use free upload toolssuch as this one (no need to register) and I'll try my best to help you out.

[Flappie]

@boombazookajdAre you also using MOOSE to spawn these aircraft?

[boombazookajd]

@Flappie

I have used both MOOSE and the regular ME to spawn aircraft. Both methods have produced these results of aircraft and vehicles going off of the map.

The unit goes into some weird area that MOOSE still knows the unit is there (it does not despawn the unit using InitCleanUp as the unit is "moving" although it is not) however the ME doesn't know the unit is there as i've set a trigger up for the planes to explode if they leave their orbits, thereby spawning in a new plane. 

 

[Avalanche110]

This concern has become far less frequent over the past few updates. I was having trouble reproducing it.

However I managed to get it to re-occur. I do not have a trk file for it, however I do have the tacview. 

At the very least it will illustrate the issue myself and others are experiencing.

Unit ADVERSARY#001-02 is scripted to Follow another group, however shortly after take-off, the unit "Breaks"

Physics no longer apply to the unit and it fly's off uncontrolled. The Sim still recognises it as a unit, and a patriot battery shoots it down.

In game, the unit is hit, and is visibly damaged however it continues to fly on the same course and speed.

in the tacview the unit is destroyed.

 

This was in single player on the Current OB. 

 

dcs bug.acmi

[Flappie]

I see what's happening in the Tacview track but I need at least the mission file to try and reproduce the bug.

Can you attach the mission, please?

[Avalanche110]

@Flappie

as I mentioned earlier, this is becoming less and less frequent in the last couple of updates.

If I ran the mission 20 times, it might happen once. Several updates ago, it was a lot easier to reproduce.

There is still some weirdness in the current build, just enough to irritate you but not enough to nail down what causes it.

 

The best way I can describe it is on occasion,  random units will "Break".

Physics stops applying to them, their triggers and scripts do not execute normally and this can occur to both air and ground units.

Also doesn't matter if the units were scripted or part of the ME.

 

the mission I used is a monster, and not Ideal for reproducing bugs.

Should you wish to try, PM me and I'll send you a dropbox link along with instructions on how to make the mission work.

 

Thankyou and all the best!

[BIGNEWY]

Please post short track replay examples, the mission does not need to be huge, if you can reproduce it with a few units its always the best option. 

 

Please keep the thread about the reports title, AI flying off the map 

 

thanks

 

 

On 10/5/2021 at 8:00 AM, Avalanche110 said:

@Flappie

as I mentioned earlier, this is becoming less and less frequent in the last couple of updates.

If I ran the mission 20 times, it might happen once. Several updates ago, it was a lot easier to reproduce.

There is still some weirdness in the current build, just enough to irritate you but not enough to nail down what causes it.

 

The best way I can describe it is on occasion,  random units will "Break".

Physics stops applying to them, their triggers and scripts do not execute normally and this can occur to both air and ground units.

Also doesn't matter if the units were scripted or part of the ME.

 

the mission I used is a monster, and not Ideal for reproducing bugs.

Should you wish to try, PM me and I'll send you a dropbox link along with instructions on how to make the mission work.

 

Thankyou and all the best!

 

Please make a new thread with example tracks. 

AI breaking physics usually happens when they are asked to perform maneuvers that will break a formation, tight waypoints, tight turns for example. Happens usually with AI wingmen when the lead user pilot does not consider their wingmen in close formations, when a spread formation would be more suitable.  

[boombazookajd]

@Flappie @BIGNEWY

 

https://file.io/X1gCkq0xpwvw

 

using that link you provided here is an example of the ground units "breaking". 

As was stated before, this isn't easy to get to happen. I run this mission on a server and it either works or it doesn't. It's not easy to get tracks as I have to go back and watch the tacview to see if anything happens. 
 

I'd gladly get you the miz file but i'm not posting it up on the forums.

On 10/6/2021 at 4:37 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Please post short track replay examples, the mission does not need to be huge, if you can reproduce it with a few units its always the best option. 

 

Please keep the thread about the reports title, AI flying off the map 

 

thanks

 

 

 

Please make a new thread with example tracks. 

AI breaking physics usually happens when they are asked to perform maneuvers that will break a formation, tight waypoints, tight turns for example. Happens usually with AI wingmen when the lead user pilot does not consider their wingmen in close formations, when a spread formation would be more suitable.  

thats the thing, none of these behaviors that could or should break the AI are happening. The tanker is in its refueling orbit and then just flies straight instead of making a left turn. And it just keeps going...

the convoy gets to their waypoint and then freezes. The convoy is less affected that the aerial units. I'd say at least once in 10 missions this behavior is seen and I lose a tanker for the mission. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by boombazookajd

[boombazookajd]

i'm working on finding the .trk for this mission on my server. 

This is the behavior i am talking about. 

the MPRS breaks, flies through an F-5 drone trigger and they also break. In this example, even the convoy breaks. 

exampleofbreak.zip.acmi

 

https://file.io/inoxxbZregYf

 

here's a link to the .trk for the acmi file for that behavior

Edited October 8, 2021 by boombazookajd
added media

[Grimes]

Track has mods in it. Unsure if removing the requirement for them broke the behavior or even at what time it is supposed to occur at. 

[boombazookajd]

13 hours ago, Grimes said:

Track has mods in it. Unsure if removing the requirement for them broke the behavior or even at what time it is supposed to occur at. 

 

Yes, the mission uses three common mods. The mission broke at the beginning. Did you even bother watching it?

[Badger1815]

I'm having the same issues, AI as well as player aircraft going dumb at random times during a mission

Mission_player blows up_AI not responding.trkMission_player aircraft not responding_KA50 hung weapon.trk

Mission files here: https://github.com/PieterL1976/MakisMissions/tree/main/EasternSunset/EasternSunset_2

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Badger1815

[Avalanche110]

This concern had become far less frequent over the 2 years since this post was first published. However, from time to time it would randomly occur.

However since 2.9 dropped, I am noticing it frequently now. While cold starting an aircraft, controls become unresponsive. On one occasion, Players aircraft fell through the earths crust and plummeted downwards. While Taxiing to runway, aircraft controls became unresponsive and aircraft slowly levitated off the ground. This issue only occurs when running Lua scripts (That I am Aware of). I ran the same mission and removed the lua scripts and their were no abnormalities.

Some instability is expected when a huge update like 2.9 is released. 

I will post tracks as they become available.

[Avalanche110]

Since my previous post, I did a slow repair and made sure their was nothing in the SavedGames folder that shouldn't be there.

I was able to reproduce the issue on first attempt. Client aircraft fell through floor of Nellis air force during cold start. Attempted to Save Track file, an error message Popped up saying it could not recover file from appdata, or something to that effect. I have attached, the logfile and TACVIEW file that shows player aircraft at -10,000 feet.

I am going to delete the appdata folder and try again.

FAULT-dcs.log Tacview-20231023-172613-DCS-RedFlag_v0.8.zip.acmi

[Avalanche110]

Deleted App data folder and ran the same mission 3 times.

On each attempt, certain controls became unresponsive. This is not as dramatic as falling through the floor but does illustrate the desync issue.

As an example, the APU switch became unresponsive to mouse clicks and key bindings. The switch animation did not occur but the Click noise from the switch could be heard.

on 2 out of 3 attempts, I lost all axis commands, so L&R throttles and stick would not respond in the sim. I opened the Controls menu, and all Axis commands registered normally in the controls menu.

I replayed all 3 tracks and the desync does not occur in the tracks. I honestly would not bother pursuing this, but its been going on for over 2 years and would be good to nail down what's going wrong.

Next, I will record the flight on OBS so you can see what's happening as it doesn't seem apparent in the track files.

Track 1.trk Track 2.trk Track 3.trk

[Badger1815]

Track of my mission, going dumb, as well as ingame video show player aircraft disappearing in outside view, not controllabel anymore, no longer following flight physics & finally going through the floor

Mission_player aircraft not responding.trk