ronht Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Ok - there has been some discussion about the trim system used on the KA-50 in the simulation which takes a bit of getting used to. The reason is in the actual KA 50 the pilot is able to trim the cyclic to any position and leave the stick in that position. In the simulation, the "Trimmer" simulates this as best it can, however, some porpoising of the heli's attitude results because your joystick wants to naturally re-center. Now having said all that, if you have a Cougar joystick and you really want to see how the KA-50 should fly, there is a way to simulate the real KA 50 cyclic in Black Shark to respond very realisticly with the Cougar Foxy software. Simply enter this statement in your profile: BTN S4/I TRIM (JOYSTICK, 0) /O/PLOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE)TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT) /RUNLOCK(JOYSTICK) What it does is allow the Cougar axis to be reset to it's last axis value when you hold the S4 button and recenter the cyclic. This allows you to re-center the Cougar joystick without changing the aircrafts attitude or get the porpoising that you see using just the Trimmer. I can't say enough good things about what I've discovered with this simulation. I is MORE than worth the wait! Ron Edited November 16, 2008 by ronht 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urze Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Nice workaround! +1:thumbup: If some don't understand why that's such a good tweak: Just watch this video in my initial post : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33221 Edit:Now we need a same tweak for rudder pedals! Edited November 16, 2008 by urze 1 Leftside Limited - ideas and solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max.jets Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Excellent contribution ronht! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) EDIT: never mind... my bad, shows my lack of knowledge for helicoper controls (don't have BS yet) Edited November 16, 2008 by Kuky No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichhorn666 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Very nice! Looking forward to it. By the way, i posted your hint as a news here: http://www.simcombat.org/2008/11/dcs-blackshark-trimming-with-the-hotas-cougar/ Cheers, Moreno [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaunyeh Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Awesome, thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Ok - there has been some discussion about the trim system used on the KA-50 in the simulation which takes a bit of getting used to. The reason is in the actual KA 50 the pilot is able to trim the cyclic to any position and leave the stick in that position. In the simulation, the "Trimmer" simulates this as best it can, however, some porpoising of the heli's attitude results because your joystick wants to naturally re-center. Now having said all that, if you have a Cougar joystick and you really want to see how the KA-50 should fly, there is a way to simulate the real KA 50 cyclic in Black Shark to respond very realisticly with the Cougar Foxy software. Simply enter this statement in your profile: BTN S4/I TRIM (JOYSTICK, 0) /O/PLOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE)TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT) /RUNLOCK(JOYSTICK) What it does is allow the Cougar axis to be reset to it's last axis value when you hold the S4 button and recenter the cyclic. This allows you to re-center the Cougar joystick without changing the aircrafts attitude or get the porpoising that you see using just the Trimmer. I can't say enough good things about what I've discovered with this simulation. I is MORE than worth the wait! Ron So there's no need to use in-game TRIM command right? 51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-) 100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-) :: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky tail# 44 or 444 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 100KIAP Regiment Early Warning & Control officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urze Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 No- You still have to Trim, But you don't have to quickly pull back the sick in the center again - when using a non FFB joystick. A Cougar with removed springs-but still holding his current position- would be the best for that task. A FFB would be of cause nicer. Leftside Limited - ideas and solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronht Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 So there's no need to use in-game TRIM command right? Actually I have been experimenting with both and they do work together, just beware that when you "clear Trim" in the simulation, you won't have a real good idea of where the axis are going so it could be a bit of a wild ride snapping everything back to center. I'm still experimenting with this and plan to add the rudder axis statement as well. I'll let you know how that works and post the results here. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronht Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 No- You still have to Trim, But you don't have to quickly pull back the sick in the center again - when using a non FFB joystick. Yes this is correct, with joystick input and pressing the button this is assigned to until the joystick is centered again will result in no change in flight control input in the simulation until the button is released. It's basically just setting a new center for the joystick axis. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hell, what if I have force sensor cougar, sticks then always stays in the center ;) 51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-) 100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-) :: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky tail# 44 or 444 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 100KIAP Regiment Early Warning & Control officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronht Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hell, what if I have force sensor cougar, sticks then always stays in the center ;) LOL - As the saying goes - "You just have to know when to LET GO!" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urze Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Hell, what if I have force sensor cougar, sticks then always stays in the center ;) Sorry! Just wait for the F-16! :lol: Or: Hopefully you have covered all of the old interior of the base and than you should be able to do some crazy stuff I did with force feedback. And you are still able to use the Stick handle only by plunging some cables. And mounting it just on a other Stick. Edit again: Wait!- you can do my things without the old interior. Edited November 16, 2008 by urze Leftside Limited - ideas and solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenzoL Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 :thumbup: thx - it works ! ... thought I can not fly :lol: mfg Ben FlightSys::pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Ok - there has been some discussion about the trim system used on the KA-50 in the simulation which takes a bit of getting used to. The reason is in the actual KA 50 the pilot is able to trim the cyclic to any position and leave the stick in that position. In the simulation, the "Trimmer" simulates this as best it can, however, some porpoising of the heli's attitude results because your joystick wants to naturally re-center. Now having said all that, if you have a Cougar joystick and you really want to see how the KA-50 should fly, there is a way to simulate the real KA 50 cyclic in Black Shark to respond very realisticly with the Cougar Foxy software. Simply enter this statement in your profile: BTN S4/I TRIM (JOYSTICK, 0) /O/PLOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE)TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT) /RUNLOCK(JOYSTICK) What it does is allow the Cougar axis to be reset to it's last axis value when you hold the S4 button and recenter the cyclic. This allows you to re-center the Cougar joystick without changing the aircrafts attitude or get the porpoising that you see using just the Trimmer. I can't say enough good things about what I've discovered with this simulation. I is MORE than worth the wait! Ron As regular as Clockwork......... What? - One might ask....... Well - every now and then, at irregular intervals, an absolute Gem of Information comes to the fore from the community, akin to that 10 Pound Nugget sparkling in the Riverbed.........And this is It! :D Cheers ronht - Excellent :thumbup: Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Those of you who own cougars did not know that? O.o That is the first thing I did for trimming any non-F-15 aircraft in LOFC! :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronht Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) OK - slight modification for those of you with rudder pedals. This Foxy statement below will affect the rudder axis as well as the joystick axis. Works best if you do all trimming when level and without using the "Trimmer" function in the simulation. Also remember RTCTL Enter will bring up the axis window at any time if you need to see what's going on. IMPORTANT - I recommend re-centering the Cougar axis between missions for best results. The reset is on the /I (S3 button) Enjoy - Ron Cut and paste into your Foxy profile for Black Shark. Note, this utilizes the S4 button on the joystick. You may use any button you like. BTN S4 /ITRIM(JOYSTICK, 0)TRIM(RDDR, 0) /O/PLOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE)LOCK(RDDR, LASTVALUE)TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT)TRIM(RDDR, TO_CURRENT) /RUNLOCK(JOYSTICK)UNLOCK(RDDR) Edited November 17, 2008 by ronht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Do those statements also work with the Stickwoks digital chipset in an FLCS/TQS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It seems to me that ED needs to add some sort of function that axis inputs are ignored after trimming until they are returned to center. Not sure if that is even possible. I got used to in on my X52 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamba Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi there In Lomac i have configured my Cougar in the GUI only without using the Foxy-Software. Is it possible to add this trim-mode to Foxy and download it into the Cougar and the rest of the buttons and axis are configured in the GUI only? Or do I have to reprogramm all my settings with foxy to be able to use this trim-mode? DCS Rafale - please :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrin Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 You might get it to work. Try it but make sure whichever button you're mapping it to has it's in-game mapping cleared. In the long run you are much better off creating a Foxy profile as you have a lot more control. One of the things I love about my profile is that when I drop chaffs or flares I only need to press the button once and it'll knock out a set of five at two second intervals. Leaves you free to get back to avoiding the missiles et al... Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronht Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi there In Lomac i have configured my Cougar in the GUI only without using the Foxy-Software. Is it possible to add this trim-mode to Foxy and download it into the Cougar and the rest of the buttons and axis are configured in the GUI only? Or do I have to reprogramm all my settings with foxy to be able to use this trim-mode? Yes it will work fine. You will need a USE DirectX statement and a USE Hat as POV statement along with the axis statement. As was mentioned before just be sure no other functions are assigned to those buttons in the game. I can post an example in a few days if necessary, I will also post my Foxy profile later, I've been working on it for several days now and have it just about where I want it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamba Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I can post an example in a few days if necessary Ron That would be great, because a have no idea how to use the foxy. :doh: DCS Rafale - please :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 You might get it to work. Try it but make sure whichever button you're mapping it to has it's in-game mapping cleared. In the long run you are much better off creating a Foxy profile as you have a lot more control. One of the things I love about my profile is that when I drop chaffs or flares I only need to press the button once and it'll knock out a set of five at two second intervals. Leaves you free to get back to avoiding the missiles et al... Just an FYI you are able to program the counter measures as such from the counter measure panel. You can change how many, the interval, and how many cycles. I use 3-3-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Thanks for the info ronht, I'm looking forward to trying this out once I get my DVD copy. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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