philstyle Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Can The forced wind-speed curve be significantly toned down plase? If I want a 20kts surface wind, the ME forces me to accept 45 Knots at 1600ft. This is madness. I understand the need for a smooth transition in wind-speeds, but forcing a more-than-doubling of wind speed over 1600ft of altitude is incredibly restrictive. 8 5 On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riojax Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Always is nice to learn new things: https://www.meted.ucar.edu/index.php http://www.theweatherprediction.com/ I think that this is the better response that I can do. Have you a nice learning! Edited October 25, 2021 by riojax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstyle Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 Enjoy your learning! https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/data?level=low&fcst=06®ion=all&layout=on&date= https://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/model-guidance-model-parameter.php?group=Model Guidance&model=GFS&area=EUROPE&ps=model https://www.weather.gov/zan/windsaloft https://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/goes/abi/goesEastconusband02.html 1 1 On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevanJ Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Have you guys been hacked? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burritto Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I agree with the OP's remarks. It would be good to have more control over the winds. Having suggested wind figures/directions that tied in to the overall weather setting (to cater for say inversions...) would be great, but give the mission designer the option to make changes. For the poster adding links to weather manuals, I spent my career as a military fast jet pilot and have been taught and read enough about it. Could it also be clarified what the ft settings in the windows are? Are they altitude, or height? On the assumption that the wind model is fairly simple they could be altitude, which means that any airfields above sea level could be facing significantly stronger surface winds than set on the 33ft window. For example, some of the southern airfields on Normandy map are 500ft+ above sea level, which could mean a surface wind of around 30kts with the settings above. If the lowered windowed settings are heights, what happens when airfields are significantly above sea level, as occurs on other maps - will there be a negative wind gradient. or a sudden change in wind velocity (in effect some form of shear)? Does the wind direction for the 1600ft window take account of the airfield latitude and the time of day? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshtimothy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Agree with op , this lack of adjustment seems off , the indicate speed also looks like it could be inaccurate , mission Last night had 22kts ground wind , 42 at 1600ft but it felt more like 60mph+ ... can ed confirm ? walshtimothyWW2 virtual flier - currently playing on 4ya ww2 - youtube channel here https://www.ww2adinfinitum.blog - https://projectoverlord.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giggles Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I would like to add my weight to this post also. I have military aviation experience and a weather forecaster/meteorologist background. Any clarifications on what burritto has asked would greatly help mission editors. 20kts surface wind with 45 Knots at 1600ft is very rare meteorologically outside of synoptic or terrain influences. Can this not be forced universally? Is 33ft wind values AGL or MSL? What is the smoothing/averaging that is done across wind levels? Also what do the turbulence values in the ME do? I would be more than happy to assist or provide metrological sources to help. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrcknbckr Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Giggles said: I would like to add my weight to this post also. I have military aviation experience and a weather forecaster/meteorologist background. Any clarifications on what burritto has asked would greatly help mission editors. 20kts surface wind with 45 Knots at 1600ft is very rare meteorologically outside of synoptic or terrain influences. Can this not be forced universally? Is 33ft wind values AGL or MSL? What is the smoothing/averaging that is done across wind levels? Also what do the turbulence values in the ME do? I would be more than happy to assist or provide metrological sources to help. If you put those values into an atmospheric boundary layer formula (google one or check your meteorological sources), you may find these numbers seem perfectly reasonable. It all depends on the type of ground that determines surface friction https://www.simscale.com/knowledge-base/atmospheric-boundary-layer-abl/. I suppose the DCS model is based on height above the airfield, since (afaik) there is no meteorology modelled, nor terrain height influence on wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giggles Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) Theory is all well and good, I can assure you that it is exceedingly rare in reality for 20 knot surface winds to have minimum 45 knot winds at 1600ft without a synoptic forcing feature such as a front or terrain influences such as a nocturnal jet setup, and even then that is alarmingly strong winds just above the surface. I look at observation radiosondes and model traces of this stuff daily to forecast aviation weather, if the OP scenario occurred in reality I would highly likely forecast moderate turbulence across flat terrain. So having that as the hard coded requirement is basically mandating moderate (over flat terrain) to severe (over hills of only 2000ft) turbulence across significant areas. As an example, this is the gradient wind analysis, aka wind strength approx 1500-2000ft MSL, for this morning. Not much strength above 30 knots let along 45 knots, can only see it around strong synoptic features as I stated, such as the Indian ocean low and the Typhoon off Japan. I accidentality linked the address rather than the static image, I have updated it with a image file of today's chart only. Still the only area above 30 knots is ahead of a synoptic feature, the low and trough over Western Australia. Edited November 4, 2021 by Giggles Incorrect image link 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 vor 18 Stunden schrieb Wrcknbckr: If you put those values into an atmospheric boundary layer formula (google one or check your meteorological sources), you may find these numbers seem perfectly reasonable. It all depends on the type of ground that determines surface friction https://www.simscale.com/knowledge-base/atmospheric-boundary-layer-abl/. I suppose the DCS model is based on height above the airfield, since (afaik) there is no meteorology modelled, nor terrain height influence on wind. The point is not to debate, that this conditions are "possible" or even likely. The question was if mission designers could get an option to manually adjust the wind speed if they want to represent "rare/terrain" conditions. An easy way would be to only adjust the 1600ft value automatically, if the 33ft value is changed and if the mission designer willingly chooses to edit the 1600ft value it does not automatically adjust the 33ft value. Add an info box telling you that this "can cause issues" and everybody can cater their preferences. Flexibility to test and train extremes as well as standard situation without harm to pilot or aircraft is a key point in having a simulator. 2 Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstyle Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 21 hours ago, Wrcknbckr said: If you put those values into an atmospheric boundary layer formula (google one or check your meteorological sources), you may find these numbers seem perfectly reasonable. It all depends on the type of ground that determines surface friction https://www.simscale.com/knowledge-base/atmospheric-boundary-layer-abl/. I suppose the DCS model is based on height above the airfield, since (afaik) there is no meteorology modelled, nor terrain height influence on wind. So we're forced to use this "possible" edge case every time? This is bonkers. Take a look at a sample of winds aloft records. A 20kt to 41kt change from 0 to 1600ft altitude is exceedingly rare. Yet we are forced to adopt this curve in every single mission. In DCS, as it is currently, it is impossible for the 1600ft wind to be anything other than 41kts if the sea-level wind is set to 20 kts. Sure, there are places and days in real life when this is the case. But suggesting that it is the case 100% of the time is empirically false - and this is what the ME does currently. 5 On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 And this is causing issues with my carrier misisons when making WOD. If I want more natural wind and less carrier speed I end up with doubled wind speed at 1600ft as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Interestingly it ties into a dll for weather data to do the math for the change to be applied. Since it is just the editor files restricting it one could comment out a few lines from me_weather.lua to make both values independent of each other. Say 817, 828, 846, and 855 should do the trick. It is possible the game doesn't actually read that value to define the weather though. The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ienatom Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) +1. The current fixed wind setting is unrealistic. It could happen but we're talking of something that is definitely not common and also restricts a lot the amount of wind that anyone would like to have at sea level due to the fact that if I want 25 knots I have a ridiculous wind speed at 1600ft. Windshear everywhere Edited June 10, 2022 by ienatom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaley Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) On 11/7/2021 at 7:39 AM, Grimes said: Interestingly it ties into a dll for weather data to do the math for the change to be applied. Since it is just the editor files restricting it one could comment out a few lines from me_weather.lua to make both values independent of each other. Say 817, 828, 846, and 855 should do the trick. It is possible the game doesn't actually read that value to define the weather though. This is interesting, has anyone tested this? Looking at the contents of the weather section of the actual unpacked miz files it doesn't look like there is a setting for the 1600' level, so I think the ME is just showing what the DCS weather engine will do at runtime. In the main topic - totally agree, it's complete madness. For those people asking, the altitudes in the ME are MSL, and as far as I know from a lot of rotary wing testing in DCS there is absolutely zero interaction between the terrain of any kind and any of the weather settings except turbulence. Edited July 7, 2022 by Scaley 476th vFighter Group Main Page -- YouTube -- Discord Scaley AV YouTube - More videos from the 476th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosR Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 I have to agree that the logic seems a bit off.. whatever number you set at ground it doubles it... I'm taking the weather from an API to make it dynamic and this was a cause for discussion for a while till someone pointed to that duplication happening.. Now I had to set the ground level to be at 0.5 of what I want to have really to avoid this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoGer Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 I think it's a bit strange to be setting 17 knots surface wind, then climbing up in an airport in the mountains and 50m off the ground be suddenly hit with 40 knot winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirtsLegs Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Would just like to bump this again, very-much a needed change to allow for more realistic conditions, and just in general give mission editors more control 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPEST.114 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 53 minutes ago, WirtsLegs said: Would just like to bump this again, very-much a needed change to allow for more realistic conditions, and just in general give mission editors more control On 10/25/2021 at 11:04 AM, philstyle said: Can The forced wind-speed curve be significantly toned down plase? If I want a 20kts surface wind, the ME forces me to accept 45 Knots at 1600ft. This is madness. I understand the need for a smooth transition in wind-speeds, but forcing a more-than-doubling of wind speed over 1600ft of altitude is incredibly restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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