General lights question

[NoPro]

Does anyone know how to set up the external lights correctly/properly? I mean, when do I use the navigation lights in steady and when in flash and if/when together with the beacon/anti collision light? What are the correct settings for those lights? Same question for the Viper, but that doesn't belong here. I'm well aware regarding the civil aviation lights regulation but I guess they don't apply to military traffic.

Cheers

[Baz000]

Around the boat at night, all lights activated and on steady and bright except no landing / taxi light on(unless specifically requested by LSO to aid with landing in IMC conditions). Lights kept off on the deck until activated by the master switch on the left throttle indicating a go for launch salute to the shooter (since at night you can't see a hand salute from pilot)

off the boat, i'm not sure... I'd stab at a guess of all lights on and set to flashing until taking the active runway then you set them to steady? In the day time just anti-collision light on? At shore you would use the taxi lights obviously... I turn them on in the day only once cleared for takeoff... At night I have them on once cleared to taxi.

IDK, does that seem to make logical sense? Dunno what they actually would do at shore... I'm fairly confident at the boat it is night/IMC all lights on and set to bright(but not activated by the master except as a "GO" for cat launch) except the taxi light. In the day time IDK, but I don't think they have any lights on at all during the day off the boat... Maybe they turn anti-collision light on once airborne tho...

At shore, what I said was pretty much an educated guess. I'm far less confident on that than at the boat.

For the F-16... I think all lights set to flashing day and night until taking the runway then they go to steady, collision beacon set to 1 unless in a formation then you set it to your assigned position in the formation.

That is my best educated guess, some of these things are controlled operationally by field and squadron SOPs so i'm sure they sometimes vary. 

I use the taxi light as an indication if I have been given clearance or not. Once I get clearance, I turn it on (in the day time) if ever I have to wonder if I have been given clearance for takeoff (which usually I don't have to wonder such things but task saturation is a thing and is very possible if doing an IFR departure) then I just have to look over at my taxi lights switch and i'll know right away, as long as I built a habit of flipping the switch when given clearance.

It comes in very handy far more for landing while you are busy in the air tho... Day or night, that is really where it helps is while flying an approach vs. Being on the ground... But I get into the habit of flipping them on both on the ground and in the air to help remind me that I have been given clearance to taxi/takeoff/land.

Also, there are these lights on the nose gear that indicate your AOA and tail hook status(it is flashing if the hook is not lowered, continually illuminated if it is) to LSOs on the deck of the boat (it is one of many things they can look at for visual reference) which is why the taxi light is normally off for landing except when called specifically for to be activated by the LSO during IMC conditions.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Baz000

[draconus]

I heard they turn on anti-collision as soon as they start the engines at the airfield.

Also you turn all lights off before fence in, except slimes when you're in close formation.

Edited November 3, 2021 by draconus

[Uxi]

I would like to see some procedures from an SME for when to have anti-collision, wing and tail position, when they would be bright and when dim and when off.  Only one that's repeated in many places to be confident of is the master-on to salute for a cat launch. Some of it is mission or exercise dependent (as is radio silence/blackout etc). Some of this is probably wing or squadron SOP.  

 

[Baz000]

I wouldn't mind it either, but from past experience this isn't really a subject that garners much attention. Certainly not like how many times DLC comes up in this forum.

[Coota0]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

I heard they turn on anti-collision as soon as they start the engines at the airfield.

Also you turn all lights off before fence in, except slimes when you're in close formation.

 

I'm Army, the anti-collison light and position lights come on when we turn on the battery at night. WHen we were in country as soon as we departed the field everything went off except for slime lights. I currently operate on an USAF base, they turn on their anti-collision and position lights either with the battery or at engine crank too. Not USN/USMC, but something as basic as lights is probably pretty common throughout. 

[Uxi]

My general practice on a cold start is to turn on my tail and wing position after engine startup and anti collision when I'm in the air.  That's completely made up since I didn't see anything in NATOPS. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Uxi

[Baz000]

Ashore: What I've been doing has been turning only the anti-collision lights on startup during the day, and the taxi light when I enter the active runway.

At night, I have everything on steady and bright and the anti-collision light on on startup... The taxi light I turn on when cleared for taxi or if in formation to signal I'm ready to taxi.

Boat: I don't turn any lights on during the day time, maybe once in the air I may turn on my anti-collision lights but even that I do rarely.

At night, everything on steady and bright and no taxi light on... cycle the lights master switch fwd to on for catapult launch in place of salute.

Another thing you may see, is in formation flights everybody turns off their red strobes/beacons anti-collision lights except for the plane furthest to the rear. The purpose of this is to not have blinding flashes of light in the faces of wingmen flying off you less than 2 wing spans away... It is really annoying and distracting and poses safety of flight issues.

Also, in IMC the strobes, beacons anti-collision lights can be shut off if it poses a problem... They can also be turned off to not blind traffic on the ground as a courtesy to other pilots so they aren't blinded by you. They obviously go back on on entering the runway.

Also, as part of the FAA see and avoid program... Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights even in day time when operating in high traffic areas to aid in mid air collision avoidance.

[Spiceman]

Victory may very well weigh in, but on the beach, in my squadrons all the lights came on as soon as they put power on the jet, day and night. Taxi lights weren’t used anywhere near the flight line. In my 11 years, I can hardly remember ever seeing a taxi light turned on. At the boat, lights are used to salute at night, and to alert the deck crew that you’ve lost brakes, which is why they make a big deal about it. People will risk life and limb and FODing of engines to contain your airplane if they think you’ve lost your brakes. You will never see a taxi light on at the boat ever… certainly not on deck and not on approach, either. 

[Baz000]

landing lights only used in really shitty weather and only upon demand of the LSOs to turn them on ( at least these days apparently, dunno if in the past they would or would not)

  You can clearly see the differentiation of it and the orange approach light on the nose... Also, yeah I realize it is a Growler and far more recent of footage too. I can't speak of practices of the 70s-80s but apparently they are doing such now these days.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Baz000

[Home Fries]

BAZ, what you say now was true in the late 90s and early 2000s.

[Baz000]

Good to know, I really wasn't sure and did not want to make any false claims since I have never stepped foot onto a carrier flight deck and can only go off of anecdotal information I have heard over the years and also what I can find out using my google foo powers on the internets.

[JupiterJoe]

When the AI F-14's cat-launch, all lights go on (except for taxi light) as they go to mil power, and the anti-collision lights flash.  The moment the weight is off wheels the anti-collision light ceases.  It must be an automatic weight on/off wheel switch.  The pilot would have his hands too full to be fiddling with light switches that soon after launch.  The WoW automatic light switch isn't modelled in the F-14 module and I suspect it should be.  Thoughts?

[draconus]

1 hour ago, JupiterJoe said:

The WoW automatic light switch isn't modelled in the F-14 module and I suspect it should be.  Thoughts?

There is no mention of such thing in NATOPS. What's your source? What AI does is simple programming and does not imply proper behavior.

[Snappy]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:04 PM, Home Fries said:

BAZ, what you say now was true in the late 90s and early 2000s.

Do you mean it was done differently before that or after that?

regards,

Snappy

[Jayhawk1971]

There's a master light switch on the throttle. No need to "fiddle" with anything. So no "World of Warcraft" automatic light switch necessary. 

 

[Whistler_RIO]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:12 PM, Uxi said:

My general practice on a cold start is to turn on my tail and wing position after engine startup and anti collision when I'm in the air.  That's completely made up since I didn't see anything in NATOPS. 

 

You turn on flashing lights after battery and before cranking the engine.  this is to warn ground personnel not to stand next to the air intakes

[Victory205]

Battery? What battery?

This thread illustrate a classic example of extrapolating off of random, out of context bits of irrelavent online flotsam, even on a simple topic like lights.

On the ship at night, all external lights are turned on when ready to launch and are kept on throughout the flight until coming to a stop at the end of the arrestment. 

The landing light is not normally used for approach or landing at sea or ashore. The rare example of when it is used is when the weather is close to or below mins. Then LSO's will sometimes call for landing lights on, which is a somber thing to hear, because it means that you aren't likely to see the ship at minimums. It helps the LSO to see you, well before you can see the ship. 

Upon join up, the flight lead would go to formation lights only when the wingman got within a few wingspans during join up. The wingman left his lights on for anti collision purposes for the entire formation. The wingman's lights paint the lead well enough to fly formation.

Tactically, we often turned all lights off, and just flew using moonlight if possible.

Ashore in the daytime, the anticollision light was turned on before start, using external power. At night, anti collision and position lights turned on prior to start. Lights were turned off prior to shutdown.

Some Air Force bases required landing lights on as part of their course rules, both to help the tower see a GIANT Navy fighter a couple miles away, or to help pilots see GIANT Navy fighters to aid in visual separation in the landing pattern. 

Pilots would use the taxi light to illuminate obstructions when they felt it necessary. 

Another technique when trying to pick out an aircraft during rendezvous was to ask for your target to "go midnight". The pilot would turn off all lights for a moment, helping the wingman to discern the correct aircraft out of a pack of blinking lights in the same area.

 

 

 

 

 

[JupiterJoe]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:32 PM, Jayhawk1971 said:

There's a master light switch on the throttle. No need to "fiddle" with anything. So no "World of Warcraft" automatic light switch necessary. 

 

It's World of Warships mate, but close.

[Slant]

20 hours ago, Victory205 said:

flight lead would go to formation lights only when the wingman got within a few wingspans during join up. The wingman left his lights on for anti collision purposes for the entire formation. The wingman's lights paint the lead well enough to fly formation.

Thanks, very helpful input in a very long history of useful nuggets of knowledge.

I'm curious, when you say the wingman's lights are enough to paint lead, it doesn't seem to work out quite the same way in DCS. Is it just me? Also, the external lights seem to be very dim. Assuming a sort of half-moon lighting, how far out would you comfortably spot the anti-collision lights? When would you see the green nav light? How far would you see the slime lights? They don't look very bright on the Tomcat in DCS, but night vision is hard to simulate in games, of course. They just switch off at anything beyond cruise.

In a no-moon illuminated night, it's a pain to maintain mutual support visually. Did you guys mainly rely on TACAN? How much comms was required? I'm also assuming that star light helps a lot more irl than in the game...

Edited January 22, 2022 by Slant

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb JupiterJoe:

It's World of Warships mate, but close.

 

[Schlomo1933]

Am 22.1.2022 um 00:45 schrieb Victory205:

Battery? What battery?

This thread illustrate a classic example of extrapolating off of random, out of context bits of irrelavent online flotsam, even on a simple topic like lights.

On the ship at night, all external lights are turned on when ready to launch and are kept on throughout the flight until coming to a stop at the end of the arrestment. 

The landing light is not normally used for approach or landing at sea or ashore. The rare example of when it is used is when the weather is close to or below mins. Then LSO's will sometimes call for landing lights on, which is a somber thing to hear, because it means that you aren't likely to see the ship at minimums. It helps the LSO to see you, well before you can see the ship. 

Upon join up, the flight lead would go to formation lights only when the wingman got within a few wingspans during join up. The wingman left his lights on for anti collision purposes for the entire formation. The wingman's lights paint the lead well enough to fly formation.

Tactically, we often turned all lights off, and just flew using moonlight if possible.

Ashore in the daytime, the anticollision light was turned on before start, using external power. At night, anti collision and position lights turned on prior to start. Lights were turned off prior to shutdown.

Some Air Force bases required landing lights on as part of their course rules, both to help the tower see a GIANT Navy fighter a couple miles away, or to help pilots see GIANT Navy fighters to aid in visual separation in the landing pattern. 

Pilots would use the taxi light to illuminate obstructions when they felt it necessary. 

Another technique when trying to pick out an aircraft during rendezvous was to ask for your target to "go midnight". The pilot would turn off all lights for a moment, helping the wingman to discern the correct aircraft out of a pack of blinking lights in the same area.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Victory ! Very interessting ! But can u explain a bit more specific which lights are for which purpose ? So when the lights are used dimmed and when bright , when steady and when blinking ?

[Home Fries]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:18 AM, Snappy said:

Do you mean it was done differently before that or after that?

regards,

Snappy

Nope.  Just confirming how it was done during my time in the fleet without implying any sort of exclusivity.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Home Fries

[Snappy]

7 hours ago, Home Fries said:

Nope.  Just confirming how it was done during my time in the fleet without implying any sort of exclusivity.

 

Hey .Ah okay, thank you,  just wasn’t sure how you meant it. Got it now!

Edited February 13, 2022 by Snappy

[JupiterJoe]

How come I can't get the anti-collision beacon to stop flashing?  I watched Top Gun again recently and the beacon at the top of the vertical stab is steady most of the time.  The flashing/steady switch doesn't seem to do anything.  Is this a bug?

 

EDIT:  Just found a thread relating to this very issue.  Seems HB have made note of it, but it's still not fixed since 2019:

Is there a list of current F-14 bugs? Surprises me there's not a continuously updated list of known issues pinned to the top of the Bugs forum, for everyone's reference.

Edited May 4, 2022 by JupiterJoe