Slave FLIR to Sensor?

[Jyge]

I am playing Raven One campaign (yes could have asked on that forum too, but the question is rather general). In the mission one is supposed to check the HARM target with FLIR. Now, I can aim the HARM and all of that but once I have the SAM locked in HARM the FLIR is still looking God knows where and does not follow my lock. Is it possible at all, I would assume that that kind of sensor integration is implemented and it works with AA weapons as well, but HARM so far no luck...

[Tholozor]

Assign TDC priority to the HUD in A/G mode, put the velocity vector over the HARM's TD box and depress TDC. You should now have a TGT designation roughly near the emitter that the pod should slave to.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tholozor

[Jyge]

Yeah, that is not really the point. If the F/A-18 sensoric suite is able to place that HARM box in the HUD over the emitter, it should be very well in a position to point the targeting pod into that same location as a target. I am wondering whether the feature is there in the real life, just not implemented by ED or whether it is there but I am not just able to find it, or if it is not there because it is not there even in the real life.

[Tholozor]

The thing about the HARM in TOO mode is that it possess no range data, only azimuth and elevation, which is not enough to create a TGT designation. In real life there may be systems in place that can triangulate range over time (maybe using the HARM or RWR in a manner akin to the 16's HTS), but in DCS it's not something we have.

The method I posted is just a quick-n-dirty way to make it work.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Tholozor

[Swift.]

6 hours ago, Jyge said:

Yeah, that is not really the point. If the F/A-18 sensoric suite is able to place that HARM box in the HUD over the emitter, it should be very well in a position to point the targeting pod into that same location as a target. I am wondering whether the feature is there in the real life, just not implemented by ED or whether it is there but I am not just able to find it, or if it is not there because it is not there even in the real life.

Its probably worth remembering here that sensors IRL aren't as perfect as they are in DCS. I don't know any details but I wouldn't be surprised if the TOO box in the real hornet is a lot less precise and stable than it is in DCS. Current DCS TOO is acting more like an HTS.

[Foka]

AFAIK there is no such possibility IRL, and deffinitly no such function in DCS.

[Bunny Clark]

13 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Its probably worth remembering here that sensors IRL aren't as perfect as they are in DCS. I don't know any details but I wouldn't be surprised if the TOO box in the real hornet is a lot less precise and stable than it is in DCS. 

I suspect the same as well. In DCS the TOO Box is always perfectly on top of the target transmitter, I doubt if it's always that way in real life, especially at longer ranges. 

Either way, a HARM TOO designation does not create a normal Target Designation the way other sensors do. If it did, the FLIR would slave to the designation, and range data would be available to assist in calculating a LAR. 

[Harker]

I suspect the same as well. In DCS the TOO Box is always perfectly on top of the target transmitter, I doubt if it's always that way in real life, especially at longer ranges. 
Either way, a HARM TOO designation does not create a normal Target Designation the way other sensors do. If it did, the FLIR would slave to the designation, and range data would be available to assist in calculating a LAR. 

Yeah, I'd be surprised if the TOO box was as accurate IRL. The resolution of the HARM seeker should be the limiting factor here and at larger distances, the error could potentially be quite large.

There was another discussion about this some time ago, I had suggested that ED adds an RNG error on x and y, around the actual point of the emitter, that gets lower as you get closer. Incidentally, it's what they seem to have done with the HTS pod on the Viper and the effect looks pretty nice there.

[Shimmergloom667]

17 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Its probably worth remembering here that sensors IRL aren't as perfect as they are in DCS. I don't know any details but I wouldn't be surprised if the TOO box in the real hornet is a lot less precise and stable than it is in DCS. Current DCS TOO is acting more like an HTS.

I think so too. The resolution of the sensor certainly is a degree or two off, which adds to a lot of uncertainty over distance.

[CBStu]

Guys help me understand here. What is the point of looking at a SAM w/ the FLIR? I love HARMs exactly because they are so simple to use. Also I am curious why the concern about the size of the TOO box. As I understand it, a HARM is following the outgoing signal from the SAM. In other words it is not like a long sniper shot where the aim must be precise because, once the bullet leaves the barrel, there is no more guidance. I thought that it follows the SAM signal all the way until it hits?  Is my assumption incorrect?

[Tholozor]

The point is to visually identify the target area. Maybe the SAM is defended by an anti-missile battery. Maybe there are civilians in the area, or collateral damage is trying to be avoided. Maybe you only have so many HARMs in the flight and they need to be saved for higher-value targets or PB missions for a greater operation. Maybe you want to get the TGP on target to get exact coordinates to attack it with a higher-Pk weapon like JDAM, or just report the position for another flight, or mark it for intel.

The HARM can be more than just a weapon, it can be a tool. Same logic applied to aircraft during the Gulf War that used IR Mavericks to locate targets as a 'poor-man's' TGP. It's all about the application.

In regards to the question regarding guidance, the HARM will have a different flight profile depending on the mode it's in. In TOO mode, since the missile has no range data, it will fly directly at the emitter in a straight line. Not very efficient. Give it a TGT designation, however, with range data, then you can set it up for PB mode and give a lofted shot from longer range. Increases the vertical approach angle (less likely to drift to the side and miss) and can hit the terminal phase with much more energy and speed (probability of anti-missile intercept is reduced).

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tholozor

[CBStu]

Tholozor, thank you very much. That all makes sense. This is a great thing about DCS and this forum. I enjoy learning about the tech and the 'why do it this way' almost as much as the how to do it. I always just use TOO mode so the PB mode from longer range is very interesting.