reported JF-17's signal strength is always at Max - RWR Bug

[pauldy]

Has this been reported already?
Since 2.5.. the JF-17 will always be displayed close to the RWR's center... which gives the impression that the jet is really close.. when in reality it isn't...
Doesn't matter how far the Thunder is from you .. as long as the JF-17 fires up its radar, will always be as if the it's FCR is at max signal strenght and is very close to you..

The same bug happens when the H-6J bomber turns on it's radar.


I'm running on the current DCS 2.7.9.18080
PS: Since i also have the Flanker, I can confirm the same thing happens in the SPO-15. I guess this bug affects all FC3 aircraft? Can't confirm with the Full Fidelity aircraft as I don't have any of them yet.
 

Edited January 8, 2022 by pauldy

[heloguy]

I'm not an F-15C RWR expert, but proximity to center of the RWR display has nothing to do with physical location of the threat on most aircraft.  Instead, proximity to center usually is based on the pre-determined (ie, programmed) level of threat.  For example, if a surface to air threat radar is in search mode, it will be toward the outside of the display.  If that surface to air threat switches to acquisition, or track, it will move toward the center of the display.  The only indication of physical location is the direction.  The system can't determine the distance to the threat.

 

In this case, the F-15C's RWR is programmed to show that the JF-17's air to air radar is a threat of the highest priority, therefore it will always populate toward the center of the display.  I may be oversimplifying this, so someone who knows better, please chime in.

Edited January 8, 2022 by heloguy

[GGTharos]

That's incorrect with regards to the FC3 F-15C.  It is indeed 'max strength' and it is some sort of bug/data issue.  This is a generic Deka issue with respect to the FC3 RWRs.

Edited January 8, 2022 by GGTharos

[pauldy]

Ok i see, at least it's a known issue now.

[Flappie]

8 hours ago, pauldy said:

Ok i see, at least it's a known issue now.

I'm not sure it's reported internally. I'll create a report if I can't find any.

[marcoscosta]

It's not limited to F-15C, all planes with RWR with intensity always show JF-17 in max strength, F-5, F-16 and F-15 for example.

[Flappie]

Thanks for the heads up. Reproduced and reported.

[pauldy]

Oks Thanks. 

Kindly include the H-6 bomber too. It has the same signal strength bug as the JF-17 when it turns on it's radar.

Edited February 3, 2022 by pauldy

[Flappie]

Reproduced and added to the report.

[303_Vins]

Bravo !!!

Bravo !!! The truth is The JF-17 has its RDR to much powerful.   Can spike me in F-16 from 100 km !!.  UFO plane. Should be banned or corrected.

Edited June 4, 2022 by 303_Vins

[Nahen]

On 6/4/2022 at 4:31 PM, 303_Vins said:

Bravo !!!

Bravo !!! The truth is The JF-17 has its RDR to much powerful.   Can spike me in F-16 from 100 km !!.  UFO plane. Should be banned or corrected.

 

Only from 100km? JF be show on RWR from 250nM (near 300km).

 

Compare AI vs PLAYER - E-3A AWACS, JF-17, F-14B, F-15C, F-16C all planes on 20 000 altitude and head to head course. AI over Sea F-15C Player (Me) over ground heading AI planes.

E-3A on RWR - 230 nM

JF-17              - 255 nM

F-15C             - 115 nM

F-16C             - 75 nM

F-14B             - 54 nM

 

They are AI dummies, so the result of the F-14B is the most surprising.
I assume from experience that the "human" F-14B should shine from at least 70-80 nM.

In any case, this it gives a sense of injustice when compared to JF-17. I ignore the fact that JF is otherwise damn hard to "catch" by radar.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Nahen

[Nahen]

Of course, JF was still closest to the center of RWR from the first ping to show last ping.

 

[draconus]

4 hours ago, Nahen said:

Only from 100km? JF be show on RWR from 250nM (near 300km).

Vins said spike, not nails.

[Torbernite]

6小时前，Nahen说：

Only from 100km? JF be show on RWR from 250nM (near 300km).

 

Compare AI vs PLAYER - E-3A AWACS, JF-17, F-14B, F-15C, F-16C all planes on 20 000 altitude and head to head course. AI over Sea F-15C Player (Me) over ground heading AI planes.

E-3A on RWR - 230 nM

JF-17              - 255 nM

F-15C             - 115 nM

F-16C             - 75 nM

F-14B             - 54 nM

 

They are AI dummies, so the result of the F-14B is the most surprising.
I assume from experience that the "human" F-14B should shine from at least 70-80 nM.

In any case, this it gives a sense of injustice when compared to JF-17. I ignore the fact that JF is otherwise damn hard to "catch" by radar.

 

Check this. It seems the range of detection ability and the range to trigger RWR are set individually.

The RWR response range of JF used to be much more bugged with wrong unit used in lua (while its detection ability is never so ridiculous) and might has been reset similar to J-11A later. But with your report some more issue seems still exist.

Mike_Romeo has already put this post under that old bug report.

 

Besides, the spike range vs. human piloted hot F-16 in my game with friends is around 40-50 n miles, and the tracking is hard to get until less than 40 n miles (if farther than this you can push the button but the radar will lock according to its mood), several miles longer than F-16 to F-16 but not ridiculous, while farther vs. AI F-16 and I don't know whether should there be difference here. So to be polite temporarily I won't call any tune to the performance "corrected" until we find strong evidence rather than emotional intuition.

And Deka even uses a variable target RCS model and weather influence to produce a better simulation to their radar. Maybe we could try to change the attitude and direction to cope with a human piloted JF.

And more features about JF's radar including unstable detecting and TWS tracking at range limit is planned in next update. You may check it later and it should be a better radar simulation then.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Torbernite

[Nahen]

22 hours ago, draconus said:

Vins said spike, not nails.

There are many aspects that determine how far you can "catch the spike" on the RWR. In the targeting/launch mode, the radar amplifies the beam in target direction - which means that if you are 100 km behind the target in a straight line, from which such a JF-17 tracks by another 100 km, then also you'll can catch a "spike" from summary 200 km or more.

[draconus]

11 minutes ago, Nahen said:

There are many aspects that determine how far you can "catch the spike" on the RWR. In the targeting/launch mode, the radar amplifies the beam in target direction - which means that if you are 100 km behind the target in a straight line, from which such a JF-17 tracks by another 100 km, then also you'll can catch a "spike" from summary 200 km or more.

Yes, but I think it's about the simple situation here that JF-17 spiked because he could lock you from that range already.

[Nahen]

Today I will check the distance from which, in constant conditions, the JF-17 is able to locate the F-15C

[Flappie]

JF-17 was fixed in today's OB update.

The H-6J is yet to be fixed.

[Frostie]

This has never been fixed in multiplayer.

JF signal always shows at the same strength on FC3 RWRs no matter the range.

Edited April 16, 2024 by Frostie