How does the F4U Stack Up against the 190 and 109?

[Metrallaroja]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:44 PM, SlipHavoc said:

One thing pointed out in another Greg's video is that US Navy planes were not particularly optimized for high altitude, as the main threat was from dive bombers at medium altitude and torpedo bombers at low altitude; level-bombing ships from 25,000 ft is basically impossible, even if the Axis powers had the planes to do it, which they mostly didn't.  Whereas even very early in the war in the European theater, high altitude performance was emphasized for bombing and recon, and escorting those planes.

On 7/11/2022 at 3:19 PM, Bremspropeller said:

The F4U (operational variants, that is) only had superchargers. However, this is exactly what the F4U-4 and -5 did with the introduction of a two-stage supercharger. It only came a little late to make any significant dent into the outcome of the war. Both the -4 and -5 were used a lot in Korea and other skirmishes. France used their Corsairs intensely in Indochina.

The F4U-1 already had a two stage supercharger that gave it very decent high alt performance. With water injection it gets about 430mph at 1975HP at 20000 feet.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-1-17930.pdf

Of course the F4U-4 had a better engine and better supercharger. F4U-5 even better in some aspects.

But F4U-1 is already a very capable high alt flighter.

Btw I even found a very good photo of the test airplane, good coincidence

Edited January 23, 2023 by Metrallaroja

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, Metrallaroja said:

The F4U-1 already had a two stage supercharger that gave it very decent high alt performance. With water injection it gets about 430mph at 1975HP at 20000 feet.

Thanks for the correction.

Mike Williams' site quotes a lot of tests that concern high and low blower settings, yet there's clearly three speeds on the charts. So which one is hig and low? And is there a "neutral" blower, which I seem to rember from somewhere, yet I can't attach it to any airplane right now.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

1 hour ago, Metrallaroja said:

What a beautiful picture this is. Thanks for posting .

[Cunctator]

50 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Mike Williams' site quotes a lot of tests that concern high and low blower settings, yet there's clearly three speeds on the charts. So which one is hig and low? And is there a "neutral" blower, which I seem to rember from somewhere, yet I can't attach it to any airplane right now.

Settings are Neutral - Low -  High, from sea level to altitude. About F4U-1 super charger control: 

[Metrallaroja]

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Thanks for the correction.

Mike Williams' site quotes a lot of tests that concern high and low blower settings, yet there's clearly three speeds on the charts. So which one is hig and low? And is there a "neutral" blower, which I seem to rember from somewhere, yet I can't attach it to any airplane right now.

In first speed ''Neutral'' air goes from the wing inlet throught the exit of the intercooler directly into the carburetor and then to the main stage supercharger

In second speed ''Low'' and third speed ''High'' air goes from the wing inlet to the auxiliary stage supercharger, then the compressed air gets cooled in the intercooler, goes to carburetor and to the main stage supercharger.

Ofc air comes from both of the wing inlets.

[Metrallaroja]

2 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

What a beautiful picture this is. Thanks for posting .

Great that you liked 

Some links with lots of great pictures:

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/chance-vought-f4u-corsair.23840/

https://www.asisbiz.com/Corsair.html

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/search.html?q=f4u&fileFormats=image&ts=false

https://catalog.archives.gov/search?availableOnline=true&q=f4u&typeOfMaterials=Photographs and other Graphic Materials

http://www.frenchwings.net/indochina/gallery/displayimage.php?album=19&pid=482#top_display_media

[Bremspropeller]

50 minutes ago, Metrallaroja said:

In first speed ''Neutral'' air goes from the wing inlet throught the exit of the intercooler directly into the carburetor and then to the main stage supercharger

In second speed ''Low'' and third speed ''High'' air goes from the wing inlet to the auxiliary stage supercharger, then the compressed air gets cooled in the intercooler, goes to carburetor and to the main stage supercharger.

Ofc air comes from both of the wing inlets.

Great info, thanks!

Interesting design-choice to isolate the aux blower at sea level.

Was that design-choice driven by the requirement of providing all the power the R2800 could squeeze out (hence no SC losses by dragging along the unnecessary aux stage), or was it just a bored-out engineer trying to shove another lever into the Corsair cockpit?

[Metrallaroja]

5 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Great info, thanks!

Interesting design-choice to isolate the aux blower at sea level.

Was that design-choice driven by the requirement of providing all the power the R2800 could squeeze out (hence no SC losses by dragging along the unnecessary aux stage), or was it just a bored-out engineer trying to shove another lever into the Corsair cockpit?

If auxiliary stage could not be disengaged F4U-1 would have 200hp less for take off, clearly not ideal for carrier short take off. Not even talking about throttling losses so power would actually be less than 1800hp.

Apart from more power it has other advantages like that take off, taxi, carrier landing approach etc could be done on Neutral. That way engine overheat at low speeds is greatly reduced because you dont have the inmense heat of the auxiliary supercharger and intercooler.

[rkk01]

British FAA Corsairs most certainly were flown against German targets…

…but during their operations over Norway don’t appear to have tangled with JG5s 109s and 190s

For their part, JG5 seem to have flown a mixed fleet of 109 Emil, Friedrich and Gustav models, alongside various 190 Antons 

Will be interesting to see how the Corsair matches up against the DCS 109 and 190 - but then again, I remain unconvinced about the 190s performance in DCS*
 

(* fully accept that the player 190 FM may well be ok, and that it is AI performance that causes this perception)

[ctguy1955]

         I am writing this without looking at any of the content above.  Some of the charts I have to see.

  I know that all WW2 aircraft were upgraded over the span of years, but in 1945, 10 corsairs were built
that had a Double Wasp engine that was supercharged and had HP much higher then any other Corsair.
   2 crashed and some were sent to museums, but many were used for racing after the War, and could
reach 500 MPH in level flight ( not sure what altitude, but it was high up where bombers are flying ).
   I think one of those could have beaten the Nazi Jets, never mind a prop plane.

   Hope the corsair has the option of a 4 bladed prop, as it is faster.

   Clear Skies
      Mike

 

[Krupi]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:39 PM, ctguy1955 said:

         I am writing this without looking at any of the content above.  Some of the charts I have to see.

  I know that all WW2 aircraft were upgraded over the span of years, but in 1945, 10 corsairs were built
that had a Double Wasp engine that was supercharged and had HP much higher then any other Corsair.
   2 crashed and some were sent to museums, but many were used for racing after the War, and could
reach 500 MPH in level flight ( not sure what altitude, but it was high up where bombers are flying ).
   I think one of those could have beaten the Nazi Jets, never mind a prop plane.

   Hope the corsair has the option of a 4 bladed prop, as it is faster.

   Clear Skies
      Mike

 

You are referring to the Goodyear F2G Corsair, aka the Super Corsair, powered by a P&W R-4360 Wasp Major.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodyear_F2G_Corsair

We won't be getting a four bladed prop as that was only ever fitted to the F4U-4, we are getting the F4U-1D variant. Hopefully in the future we will get the -4 but it wouldn't be a for a while, along with the prop another major change was a complete redesign of the cockpit (layout, a floor and a new canopy to name a few) which would have to be modelled virtually from scratch I imagine.