ED Team Raptor9 Posted February 16, 2022 ED Team Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said: it is like taking a fundamental optic sight of the Apache and gaming it. Comparing any DCS gaming experience to the real-world equivalent for the sake of absolute authenticity in this particular argument isn't a fair comparison. In the real military, people are screened and selectively disqualified from being able to operate such aircraft for a variety of physiological or psychological reasons. Often times, those same people seek out flight simulators in the commercial gaming market to get as close as they can to the experience of being a military pilot and flying high performance aircraft. If a flight simulator game incorporates some of the same restrictions and limitations that would disqualify such individuals from being able to operate the real thing, you are defeating the entire concept and purpose of a flight simulator game. A flight simulator that exists for the purposes of reducing the costs and logistics of training real-world aircrews without actually putting them in the real thing should simulate the real thing as closely as possible; restrictions, inconveniences and all. Because the purpose of a flight simulator is to train real pilots for the real aircraft. A flight simulator game exists for the purpose of allowing anyone that can financially afford to purchase and play such software to be entertained by the experience. Making these games available to as many people as possible is never going to be a bad thing. Having options to move it between eyes will not cheapen the complexity of the module, or turn it into an arcade game. Yes, it is a "study sim", but this is still a product for entertainment. Live and let live my friend. Edited February 16, 2022 by Raptor9 19 2 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathnan Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Raptor9 said: Comparing any DCS gaming experience to the real-world equivalent for the sake of absolute authenticity in this particular argument isn't a fair comparison. In the real military, people are screened and selectively disqualified from being able to operate such aircraft for a variety of physiological or psychological reasons. Often times, those same people seek out flight simulators in the commercial gaming market to get as close as they can to the experience of being a military pilot and flying high performance aircraft. If a flight simulator game incorporates some of the same restrictions and limitations that would disqualify such individuals from being able to operate the real thing, you are defeating the entire concept and purpose of a flight simulator game. A flight simulator that exists for the purposes of reducing the costs and logistics of training real-world aircrews without actually putting them in the real thing should simulate the real thing as closely as possible; restrictions, inconveniences and all. Because the purpose of a flight simulator is to train real pilots for the real aircraft. A flight simulator game exists for the purpose of allowing anyone that can financially afford to purchase and play such software to be entertained by the experience. Making these games available to as many people as possible is never going to be a bad thing. Having options to move it between eyes will not cheapen the complexity of the module, or turn it into an arcade game. Yes, it is a "study sim", but this is still a product for entertainment. Live and let live my friend. Amen, well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said: I would enjoy the F-16 with mavericks on the wing tips AlphaOneSix, why will you not let me enjoy the F-16? I own the F-16 but i just cannot play it because there are no mavericks on the wing tips!!!!! drives me nuts! I do not like it! It will create complaints on each eye view that will drain bug fixing for the Apache! No you must have mistaken pancake.... there I know they can do whatever they like...... which is fine for me! Some people only have one eye, or are partially blind in one eye. You don't want them to fly the DCS Apache? *edit* sniped by Wags. Damn my eyes! Edited February 16, 2022 by Lurker Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lace Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) I think that some people genuinely believe that if a module is realistically detailed enough, then they can convince themselves that they 'are a real Apache* pilot', and therefore any deviation from the ideal 'perfect' simulation reduces their ability to maintain that illusion. We all know ED strive for an authentic experience, but we all also know that this is an entertainment product, even a (whisper it) game. * insert any module here Edited February 16, 2022 by Lace 2 Laptop Pilot. Alienware X17, i9 11980HK 5.0GHz, 16GB RTX 3080, 64GB DDR4 3200MHz, NVMe SSD. 2x TM Warthog, Hornet grip, Virpil CM2 & TPR pedals, FSSB-R3, Cougar throttle, Viper pit WIP (XBox360 when traveling). Rift S. NTTR, SoH, Syria, Sinai, Channel, South Atlantic, CA, Supercarrier, FC3, A-10CII, F-5, F-14, F-15E, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Harrier, M2000, F1, Viggen, MiG-21, Yak-52, L-39, MB-339, CE2, Gazelle, Ka-50, Mi-8, Mi-24, Huey, Apache, Spitfire, Mossie. Wishlist: Tornado, Jaguar, Buccaneer, F-117 and F-111. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WobblyFlops Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Offering options for more accessibility and making a module have completely fictional capabilities are two different things. When it comes to peripherials, customization options, various user settings we need to understand that when using commercial, off the shelf products there will always be a level of inaccuracy. The products will have different qualities, materials, limitations and because of that, allowing people to customize their experience can't do any harm whatsoever. The same argument is often brought up against things like user curves, zoom and now this feature, which just doesn't make sense. The very nature of sitting in front of the computer with completely different set of controls, while looking at a screen will make the experience inherently different from real life. Having the option to customize this experience will not make it worse for anyone. Especially since it's all optional, no one is forced to use it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap921 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 God forbid that I get beat out by some Apache pilot using his left eye and not his right, that's just cheating plain and simple..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgillers3 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 28 minutes ago, Zap921 said: God forbid that I get beat out by some Apache pilot using his left eye and not his right, that's just cheating plain and simple..... lol, I'll be using both eyes because I run panels #notfair 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doedkoett Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 You could always wear an eye patch, pirate style! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornykidd0 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I just hope that In vr the pnvs display is usable. The tgp mirror in the a10 hmd is not usable in my experience, and I imagine the pnvs is going to work similar. There is not nearly enough contrast I find in the A10. Admittedly I haven’t used that mirror function much at night, but in daylight it’s not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying.Panda Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Using the PNVS in daylight is obviously not what it is meant for. I know some that use the TADS for targeting on their HMD during the day, but they then often lower their sun visor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) Too all the real life Apache pilots out there in this forum. It is your job to maintain quality control. WE... yes WE did not employ you to just say that will do. Your job is not to slack jaw it through production when ED say "I think that is close enough!" Your job is to ensure mission complete and accurate........Target point is Apache AH-64D "early" simulation. Edited February 28, 2022 by Rogue Trooper 1 HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Raptor9 Posted February 28, 2022 ED Team Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said: Too all the real life Apache pilots out there in this forum. It is your job to maintain quality control. WE... yes WE did not employ you to just say that will do. Your job is not to slack jaw it through production when ED say "I think that is close enough!" Your job is to ensure mission complete and accurate........Target point is Apache AH-64D "early" simulation. I wish there was a dis-like button for this. What's all this "we" talk? Just because other people might play the DCS AH-64D with a different VR set-up than you? Why would someone playing with the monocle on the left, right, or both eyes have any bearing on your gameplay? Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean DCS AH-64D will suffer some form of "quality deficiency". Some friendly advice: don't concern yourself with how other people intend to play DCS. This level of stress can't be healthy. Edited February 28, 2022 by Raptor9 15 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog 762 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Raptor9 said: I wish there was a dis-like button for this. What's all this "we" talk? Some friendly advice: don't concern yourself with how other people intend to play DCS. This level of stress can't be healthy. I guess he must have a mouse in his pocket. Him and the mouse are both "going to war" in 10 years. ??? 12 minutes ago, Raptor9 said: System: Intel Core i9-9900KF @ 5 Ghz, Z-390 Gaming X, 64Gb DDR4-3200, EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3, Dedicated SSD, HP Reverb G2, Winwing Orion & F-16EX DCS Modules: A-10C II, A/V-8B NA, Bf-109 K4, P-51D, P-47D, F/A-18C, F-14 A/B, F-16 CM, F-86F, JF-17, KA-50 Black Shark 2, UH-1H, Mosquito, AH-64D Longbow Terrains & Tech: Caucasus, Persian Gulf, Normandy, Syria, Nevada, The Channel, Combined Arms, WWII Assets, Supercarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Is the monocle really right eye only, or is it movable between eyes like other HMCS systems? I know that JHMCS is set up in your dominant eye, whichever it is. It would be very silly if being lefthanded, or righthanded with cross-dominant eyes, disqualified you from flying the Apache IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Raptor9 said: I wish there was a dis-like button for this. What's all this "we" talk? Just because other people might play the DCS AH-64D with a different VR set-up than you? Why would someone playing with the monocle on the left, right, or both eyes have any bearing on your gameplay? Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean DCS AH-64D will suffer some form of "quality deficiency". Some friendly advice: don't concern yourself with how other people intend to play DCS. This level of stress can't be healthy. No? How is that, in the Raptor 9 world, how does such a structural change to reality work? There is little stress on my side, it is something you believe to be valid, but I do not. For the life of me I cannot understand why your point of view holds more weight than mine... Raptor 9, you will spend minimal time in the Apache..... I will spend years in the Apache, I just do not get it. Edited March 1, 2022 by Rogue Trooper 1 HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradmick Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Hate to break it to you, but the documentary Firebirds was hugely wrong about that whole eye dominance thing. And yes, it’s right eye only in the bird. The us army is also super cheap, the idea of binocular HDUs or whatever isn’t repugnant, they’ll just never spring for that option because of the expense, and retraining requirement…which is also expensive. Maybe later, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, bradmick said: Hate to break it to you, but the documentary Firebirds was hugely wrong about that whole eye dominance thing. And yes, it’s right eye only in the bird. No left or right. Centre is a no no. HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradmick Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rogue Trooper said: No left or right. Centre is a no no. This is dumb. Centers fine. So is left or right. Edited March 1, 2022 by bradmick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Raptor9 Posted March 1, 2022 ED Team Share Posted March 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said: Is the monocle really right eye only, or is it movable between eyes like other HMCS systems? I know that JHMCS is set up in your dominant eye, whichever it is. It would be very silly if being lefthanded, or righthanded with cross-dominant eyes, disqualified you from flying the Apache IRL. Your eye dominance doesn't disqualify you, but it is fixed to the right of the helmet for everyone in real life. Same thing with the controls, if you are left-handed, you need to learn how to fly with your right hand with the cyclic and use the collective with your left. 8 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said: How is that, in the Raptor 9 world how does such a structural change to reality work? There is little stress on my side, it is something you believe to be valid, but I do not. For the life of me I cannot understand why your point of view holds more weight than mine... Raptor 9, you will spend minimal time in the Apache..... I just do not get it. 1) There is no structural change, it's literally what screen the thing is rendered in. 2) My point-of-view is to not restrict other people from being able to use the game how it best suits them. 3) And why am I not going to be in the Apache very much? You think I'm not gonna play the heck out of it?? What? 2 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) Hellooooo. (1) There is no structural change for a helmet that only has a right hand fitment! However In the interim (since WAGs argument) I believe a left eye piece may be prudent. (2) I do not believe the "game" is of any interest to the long term sim. (3) No, I think you have no long term interest in the AH-64D module.... I truly believe that! I believe your input is worthless. Edited March 1, 2022 by Rogue Trooper 1 HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Raptor9 Posted March 1, 2022 ED Team Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said: (3) No, I think you have no long term interest in the AH-64D module.... I truly believe that! I believe your input is worthless. What evidence led you to this conclusion? 2 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) You are not a chopper boy. This module does not run in your veins like it does with me. Even if I get banned for a few months it does not matter, I have skin in this game..... This is the APACHE AH-64D and it will be done right. For 10 years Raptor9 I have known you, you are not a chopper boy. The AH-64 is the very pinnacle of attack choppers, it will be done right. Edited March 1, 2022 by Rogue Trooper HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradmick Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) It is being done right. And let’s be real, you wouldn’t know if it were right or wrong anyway. Edited March 1, 2022 by bradmick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trooper Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 minute ago, bradmick said: It is being done right. And let’s be real, you wouldn’t know if were right or wrong anyway. you would with a central stereoscopic image! HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. OpenXR, Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC. Vaicom user. Virpil Mongoose base CM3 & Mongoose stick CM2 (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS with apache Grip. MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Raptor9 Posted March 1, 2022 ED Team Share Posted March 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said: -snipped everything because...wow- That post....just....wow. I'm not even going to bother with that. You must be trolling at this point. 6 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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