"Official" F-4E Livery Discussion

[LanceCriminal86]

I think we've got a pretty good base of US skins recommended now, at least for a good start on Marianas.

So for the Marianas, the mentioned squadrons from Japan, Korea, and Clark AFB, potentially plus the QRF from the Carolinas (I'll try to update the initial posts soon).

How about for the Mediterranean? Syria/PG, what squadrons might have been the closest to operate in those zones?

How about Caucuses? My thoughts there were forward bases in Italy or maybe Germany?

[Bremspropeller]

Germany would be

Hahn AB

Spangdahlem AB

Bitburg AB (picture is an early E - note the AIM-4s, no slats "hard wing" , yet Midas IV gun blast deflector)

Zweibrücken AB (RF-4C Recce Birds)

Ramstein AB

===

Netherlands would be

Soesterberg AB

===

The UK would be

Alconbury AB - only RF-4Cs

Woodbridge AB - only C and D models

Bentwaters AB - same, both air bases are basicly on top of each other

===

Spain would be

Torrejon AB - seems like their early Es were replaced by Cs and later Ds

Note: Original gun nose airframes in foreground an background, leader has Midas IV gun nose

===

No Phantoms in Italy (Aviano AB)

 

[LanceCriminal86]

Man, I was kind of counting on Aviano having some. Good to know!

 

Do we know if any AF F-4E squadrons in the 70s/80s ever did some joint stuff out of Israel? Even there for exercises or training?

 

[MBot]

2 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

How about for the Mediterranean? Syria/PG, what squadrons might have been the closest to operate in those zones?

The 401 TFW out of Torrejon Air Base, Spain, were assigned wartime deployments to Aviano Air Base, Italy and Incirlik Air Base, Turkey (which is the primary allied base on our Syria map). "Unfortunately" they flew the F-4E only from 1970 to 1973, then switched first to F-4C in 1973, F-4D in 1979 and F-16 in 1983.

Edited February 6, 2022 by MBot

[slickdevel]

There were a bunch of F-4E's flying during the USAF's SEA adventures. Pictures are available online but really wouldn't a/c with the squadron tail code markings from that conflict be appropriate for this version of the Phantom? The SEA camouflage pattern is consistent for all a/c, squadron tail color applications may vary a bit and a photo would show that. The Tail Code would be the biggest, easiest identifier. These are the F-4E MiG killers from that conflict.

67-0333 35th TFS 366th TFW tc LC

68-0338 13th TFS 432th TRW tc OC?

68-0338 555th TFS 432th TRW tc FY?

67-0210 58th TFS 432th TRW tc ZF

67-0283 469th TFS 388th TFW tc JV

67-0270 4th TFS 366th TFW tc LA

67-362 555th TFS 432th TRW tc FY?

67-0292 4th TFS 432th TFW tc LA

67-0239 58th TFS 432th TRW tc ED 

69-7235 366th TFS 8th TFW

69-0291 4th TFS 432th TFW  tc LA

69-0392 34th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

69-0392 35th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

67-0268 35th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

67-0275 35th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

68-0493 34th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

66-0313 34th TFS 388th TFW tc JV

69-0276 35th TFS 388th TFW tc JJ

67-0232 307th TFS 432th TRW tc ZF

67-0301 34th TFS 388th TFW tc JV

 

 

[Akatsuki]

I started doing the stencils for the F-4EJ but I have trouble findings reference pictures or diagram for the upper and lower wings as well as bottom fuselage. I have some but the text is unreadable. So if someone knows a website or have pictures with such references, please share.

I'm looking for readable japanese stencils and also i'm looking for a good ref for that yellow placard on the front right fuselage near the front wheel well.

[Tengu]

@Akatsuki, have you tried looking up plastic scale model decals?

Something like this.  I got the next two images from: HobbySearch Military Plastic Model Store (1999.co.jp) 

For a given model kit, that site oftentimes attaches photos of the box art, the various sprues, and pointedly the instructions which will include decal and painting maps like below.  (I shrunk this photo since I'm merely trying to convey the idea.)

You'll want the instruction sheets from the kits versus the after-market decals.  While that might seem counter-intuitive, the aftermarket decals tend to be only the special markings, not the "mundane" stencils that come with the base kit.

Cross-reference the above maps to walk-around photos and maybe a really detailed "box review" that shows the decal sheet in detail.  Like below, but in better detail.  1/32 scale and 1/48 scale would be best for legibility.  1/72 and 1/144 are extremely small and on the edge of legibility even when handling the actual decal sheet.  So, if you find a detailed shot of decal "38", then you'll be able to copy paste to all locations marked "38".

That yellow placard you mention has two diagrams and bubble call outs.  I interpret the upper half to be the underside of the F-4 "flying" lower left to upper right.  The lower half appears to be an upper view with the F-4 pointed from upper right to lower left.  This is the best I can find:

Finally, and I buried the lead here, try Japanese "walk arounds".  Most spotters take overall photos.  Only scale modellers (or digital artists) are taking crazy zoomed in shots of Do Not Walk stencils and brake line fittings.  I got that yellow placard shot from this guy:

NABE3's Aviation Photo Gallery (fc2.com)

Look under the Walk Arounds > Japanese > F-4EJ, RF-4E, etc, etc.  There's several good shots of the undersides of the outer wing surfaces and the forward fuselage.  As amazing as they are, you might still need a combination of these and the decal maps to get the full surfaces.  Nabe3 also has decades worth of squadron marking in addition to the walk around photos. 

Another of my favorites is:

J-HangarSpace: Information on Japanese Aviation

This is great English language source for unit histories, unit marking, etc for Japanese aviation subjects.  (In case you're like me and don't read the kanji and katakana.)

Edited February 9, 2022 by Tengu

[Mainstay]

Egyptian F-4's

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mainstay

[G.J.S]

23 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

Egyptian F-4's

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure the fin flash is an Israeli one on this particular one.

[Mainstay]

Your right! Edited

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mainstay

[Akatsuki]

12 hours ago, Tengu said:

@Akatsuki, have you tried looking up plastic scale model decals?

Something like this.  I got the next two images from: HobbySearch Military Plastic Model Store (1999.co.jp) 

For a given model kit, that site oftentimes attaches photos of the box art, the various sprues, and pointedly the instructions which will include decal and painting maps like below.  (I shrunk this photo since I'm merely trying to convey the idea.)

You'll want the instruction sheets from the kits versus the after-market decals.  While that might seem counter-intuitive, the aftermarket decals tend to be only the special markings, not the "mundane" stencils that come with the base kit.

Cross-reference the above maps to walk-around photos and maybe a really detailed "box review" that shows the decal sheet in detail.  Like below, but in better detail.  1/32 scale and 1/48 scale would be best for legibility.  1/72 and 1/144 are extremely small and on the edge of legibility even when handling the actual decal sheet.  So, if you find a detailed shot of decal "38", then you'll be able to copy paste to all locations marked "38".

That yellow placard you mention has two diagrams and bubble call outs.  I interpret the upper half to be the underside of the F-4 "flying" lower left to upper right.  The lower half appears to be an upper view with the F-4 pointed from upper right to lower left.  This is the best I can find:

Finally, and I buried the lead here, try Japanese "walk arounds".  Most spotters take overall photos.  Only scale modellers (or digital artists) are taking crazy zoomed in shots of Do Not Walk stencils and brake line fittings.  I got that yellow placard shot from this guy:

NABE3's Aviation Photo Gallery (fc2.com)

Look under the Walk Arounds > Japanese > F-4EJ, RF-4E, etc, etc.  There's several good shots of the undersides of the outer wing surfaces and the forward fuselage.  As amazing as they are, you might still need a combination of these and the decal maps to get the full surfaces.  Nabe3 also has decades worth of squadron marking in addition to the walk around photos. 

Another of my favorites is:

J-HangarSpace: Information on Japanese Aviation

This is great English language source for unit histories, unit marking, etc for Japanese aviation subjects.  (In case you're like me and don't read the kanji and katakana.)

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply this precisely.

But i already have all these references, some are partly readable. I have a relatively good idea of where they're all located but i can't read the texts, so it cannot be transcribed.

To give you an idea of what i'm doing, here's a screenshot of a PSD file that i did:

 

And i have this done for everything except most of the wings...

Once completed i'll share it for those who wants.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Akatsuki

[Akatsuki]

Good news, i guess it's my lucky day as i found all i need.

[LanceCriminal86]

7 hours ago, Akatsuki said:

Good news, i guess it's my lucky day as i found all i need.

It's always fulfilling to get that, I'm glad it didn't take you over a year like it did for me to figure out the lettering on a stencil for a reserve squadron right before they retired their Tomcats.

[ZekeAR]

Don't forget the Spanish...

Yes, they have forgotten pilot and WSO inside

Edited February 10, 2022 by ZekeAR

[TLTeo]

They flew Cs, not Es though

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

13 hours ago, ZekeAR said:

 

Yes, they have forgotten pilot and WSO inside

 

Some dudes just can't let go.

 

13 hours ago, TLTeo said:

They flew Cs, not Es though

Well, we're going to have to compromise some where. We can't get every variant. I'm going to want my local ANG unit's livery on the F-4, but they flew F-4Ds. I'd doubt we'll even see such a mark of Phantom, so we'll just have to make-do.

[LanceCriminal86]

Fictional liveries from short-nosed C and D Phantoms shouldn't be the primary focus of the team, they can be done by the community once the paint kit is out. At least with the exported variants of the E they're on the right airframe despite system differences.

The goal here is to establish F-4E liveries, USAF ones associated with the DCS terrains available, and for the nations that have operated the E. The exported Es and even F are somewhat stretching things enough with their varied avionics and upgrades, I don't think spending cycles outside of that makes sense right now. Just working the above is already going to be a mountain of work.

[ZekeAR]

Well, I didn't see that these were specifically "F-4E" skins, my apologies. I thought that leaving the GPS coordinates of Getafe's roundabout would have been useful for Heatblur (you never know)

Being strict with the conditions: "F-4E" version and available maps; probably we are limited to Israel, Turkey, Iran and a few from USAF. Honestly, all the skins probably represent 5% of a sim project. Heaviest part is the cockpit modeling (20%), but above all the programming and test (75%). And unfortunately what a programer does, can rarely be done by a modelling artist (and vice versa). But yes they will have more work on the skins than what they had with the Viggen and the F-14.

Regards,

[Nodak]

Need some from the USAF Weapons Testing Center Eglin, for all those various weapons needing retesting.

 

[Caldero]

On 2/10/2022 at 2:51 PM, ZekeAR said:

Don't forget the Spanish...

Yes, they have forgotten pilot and WSO inside

 

Hi

That's a very poor representation of a spanish F-4C. This is a FAKE aircraft, fake painting, fake serial, fake numeral, no stenciling... really ugly!!

Serials were C.12-01...C.12-40. Last numeral was 12-32. Two tone oddly repainted: Spanish phantoms were all three tone SE Asia camo, bought second hand from the 81st TFW USAF. 40 Aircraft, not counting the RF-4C

This is the ugliest F-4C I ever saw 

Here you have a spanish among a lot of USAF birds:    http://miprofiles.unblog.fr/2015/03/18/f-4c-d/

Regards

Edited February 13, 2022 by Caldero

[KPenn5]

As long as we get some Rhino’s in the Euro one scheme, I’m set! Best scheme the USAF Phantoms ever wore 

[Vampyre]

[Nealius]

+1 on the HAF. Love the Agean Ghost scheme. Also +1 on the psuedo-JASDF birds. The leading edge slats have piqued my interests because they seem somewhat unique on the EJs. 

[LanceCriminal86]

4 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

 

Oof, went looking for 74-043, immediately a pic of QF-4E. You can tell it's the same jet:
 

 

[Nexus-6]

2 hours ago, Vampyre said:

I think I'm in love with this one.