A listing of all variants of J-7 and J-8.

[PLAAF]

For a while, many friends asked me to create a new thread that lists all J-7 and J-8 variants to help with a discussion on J-7, so no one is confused about which variant is which. It took me a while, but here it is.
Notice, that minor subvariants with small differences made for specific foreign customers will not be included in this thread. Well, unless it is a milestone in the development of J-7. OK, let's start.


J-7
Copy of MiG-21F-13 under license. However, the Soviets withdrew the technical assistance before the transfer could be completed. So, China had to reverse engineering it to figure out how to build this.
This variant shot down 6 UAVs from the US between 1966 to 1968.

 

J-7I

To the Chinese, the original design of the MiG-21F-13 was ridiculous. It has only 2 hard points under the wing. So, if you choose to carry fuel tanks (most of the time since MiG-21 is known to be the airfield defender due to its short range), you can't carry missiles. Without missiles, you are left with only a single 30mm cannon with 60 rounds.

So one more cannon was added to the left side of the wing root (see picture below) and made this plane symmetric. The magazines were also enlarged, so now each cannon has 90 rounds of shells (some sources claim to be 60 rounds, and the magazines were unchanged). This become the standard armament for most J-7 variants designed after this point.
The best part was that the original 3-position nose inlet was redesigned to a fully translating design, the same as what we have on MiG-21bis. Speaking of which, we still can’t map the nose inlet control onto our controller or even on the keyboard. I wish ED could do something about it because it is used during emergencies, and it would be hard for us to use the mouse to click it in the middle of an emergency.


 

Notice there is a cannon on both sides.

Later it was modified to carry new PL-2B missiles.

The export version is called F-7A:
Compared with the domestic variant, the F-7A received 2 more upgrades:
1: New WP-7B engine with 58.8kN thrust instead of the 56.39kN on the original ones.
2: A break chute is added at the bottom of the rudder to reduce landing distance.

J-7II series

This is the most produced series.

Variants:
J-7II
The original ejection seat and escape system on the MiG-21 were highly unreliable. It was dangerous even if it was working, because the canopy was attached to the seat, and it was separated after ejection. You all remember what happened to Goose in the Top Gun movie, right? Few PLA pilots lost their lives during ejection because of this. So, China put a lot of effort into developing a new ejection seat. As a result, the HTY-2 rocket ejection seat is created. It can eject at zero altitude and low-speed conditions (250km/h). This ejection seat had a far better reliability record and saved 6 lives in real ejections back in 1985. To accommodate this new seat, the original front open, one-piece cockpit was redesigned to a rear open canopy with a fixed 3-piece front windscreen. (See picture below)

 

J-7II is equipped with a WP-7B block II engine with dry thrust increased from 38.2kN to 43.15kN and afterburner increased from 56.3kN to 59.82kN. At the same time, the fuel consumption was decreased by about 14%. This is why China didn’t like 3^rd stage MiG-21s like the MiG-21bis, where they sacrificed the plane’s maneuverability for higher climb rate and speed. Because to China, if you want a better climb rate and speed, you can always put a better engine on it or use a dedicated interceptor like J-8. You certainly do NOT need to change a plane’s aerodynamics and sacrifice maneuverability for it. The new engine also has a longer lifespan. The time until overhaul was increased to 200 hours and a total life expectancy of 600 hours.

It also has a newly designed 720L centreline drop tank to replace the old 480L ones to increase the range.

Also, like the F-7A, the J-7II has the drag chute added, which reduces the landing distance to 800m.

 

F-7B

The export variant of J-7II. Very much the same as the J-7II, but with better avionics, a further improved ejection seat and it can carry Magic R.500 missiles. 90 were sold to Iraq and 22 more were sold to Sudan.

Two squadrons of those were also exported to the US and served in their aggressor force in their drill game.

 

J-7IIA

Improved avionics based on Western techs. This variant is distinguishable from other variants because its nose probe is on top of the intake instead of below it (see picture below).

 

J-7H

Later variant of J-7IIA.
It can carry new PL-5 and PL-8 missiles and free-fall bombs.
Strengthen landing gear and improve the powerplant.

Type 941-4 decoy launcher was added as well as onboard ECM.
From this variant, all later variants were equipped with CM launchers and ECM.

 

 

F-7M Air Guard Series

This is a sub-series of J-7IIA for export. It has many upgrades from the UK. During the Sino-western honeymoon period, the UK provided some equipment to upgrade J-7’s avionics.

Variants:

F-7M:

Those received upgrades include:

• Sky ranger 7M ranging radar
• A HUD
• MADS-7 electronic defence system
• Type 50-048-02 digitized air data computer
• AD-3400 encrypted radio

In addition to the UK upgrades, China also provided it with a newer WP-7BM engine. This increased the expected hour until overhaul to 300 hours and it has a total life expectancy of 900 hours.

This variant can carry PL-5 and PL-7 missiles.

The best part is the addition of 2 more underwing hardpoints. All J-7 variants that were designed after this have 4 underwing hardpoints. It has become the standard configuration on J-7.

The airguards have been exported to many nations including Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Iran.

 

F-7MB

A variant made for Bangladesh. This variant is upgraded with a new LJ-2 RWR. And finally, we don’t have to put up with that thing we found on MiG-21bis anymore, which was a terrible excuse for a RWR. (See picture below, that thing on the right side of the HUD). It is hard to find the user manual for this RWR, but judging by the picture, it may even be able to differentiate airborne signals from surface ones.

 

Edit: 

 

 

After reading through the Mirage F1 manual, I can make a reasonable guess that CW is the "Continuous Wave". But I still don't know what CD stands for. Does anyone want to give it an educated guess?

 

 

Edit end

J-7IIM

The ultimate J-7II variant. Basically the domestic variant that accumulated almost every upgrade from the other air guard series, plus the ability to carry PL-8 missiles. To the best of my knowledge, most if not all prior J-7II variants were upgraded to this standard.

 

F-7MP Sky Bolt Series

This series is designed specifically for Pakistan. In short, it is an F-7M with a search radar. Since it is only used by Pakistan and not even a domestic variant was created, this variant will not be our focus in this thread.

 

J-7III series

China managed to get a few MiG-21MF from Egypt. After evaluation, it was deemed that MiG-21MF was below the Chinese standards and requirements, so Chengdu began to work on an upgraded version of this aircraft. This was the first time China used computer-aided design (CAD) in the development (or rather in this case, refine the design) of an aircraft. Although J-7III kept the outer appearance and aerodynamic design of a MiG-21MF, but 80% of its components were redesigned.

Variants:

J-7III

The novel equipment includes a new HTY-3 ejection seat, an autopilot and an indigenous mono-pulse radar. Although this is better than MiG-21MF, it is still below PLAAF standards, so only a few prototypes were made for evaluation purposes.

 

 

J-7C

The first variant of the series was accepted by PLAAF into service.

It has a JL-7 monopulse radar with a range of 30km against fighter-size targets.

Its optical gun sight was replaced by a HK-13A HUD.

New Type 930-II RWR is installed along chaff/flare dispensers.

We can easily distinguish a J-7C from its green camo.

 

Like the MiG-21MF, the J-7C is armed with a twin 23mm cannon. It has 4 underwing hardpoints and can carry PL-5 missiles.

 

J-7D

The last variant of the J-7III series.

All short comes in J-7C were eliminated. It is now equipped with an improved JL-7A radar which is very reliable with limited look-down capability.

It also has JD-3II TACAN, Type 563B INS and most importantly, a new KJ-8602 RWR. This matches the Western standards. It is very similar to the ones found on modern planes like F-4 and F-14 (see picture below).

By the way, after some digging, I found a link that shows this RWR is for sale at the moment (see link below). So go pick one up, this will be perfect for your car, and it is a must-have whenever you take your family on vacation or picnic. Tax and batteries are not included, and if you pay it on a credit card, you can save a few cents on fuel. Just think about the potential, whenever a police is using their speed detector radar on you, you will get a warning in advance. Imaging the possibility. 
http://www.ttfly.com/sell/show-8533.html

Also, for more info, you can read here (link below). It appears China had sold the copyright of those older equipment to Pakistan. Now they are producing them.

https://www.pac.org.pk/avionic

Other improvements on J-7D include:

VHF radio

WP-13F1 engine with better thrust power (44.1kN dry thrust, 66.7kN afterburner) and reliability compared to the ones on MiG-21MF (39.9kN dry, 63.7kN afterburner).

PL-8 missiles.

All J-7D has their extinguishable white livery (see below)

 

J-7E series

Radical revision of J-7 series. The PLA was not impressed with the J-7III series, because they were based on the MiG-21MF airframe, and had a decrease in manoeuvrability compared to other J-7 and MiG-21 variants. Chengdu went back to create a better J-7 with smaller airframes like the J-7II.

It has a redesigned double delta wing which retains the existing leading-edge sweep angle of 57 degrees inboard but has a reduced sweep angle of 42 degrees on the outboard wing, which also has a leading-edge flap fitted. It has better fuel capacity and far better manoeuvrability.

Variants:

J-7E

Equipped with:

• Type 226 ranging radar (that’s right, no search radar in this variant)
• JT-1 HUD
• KW8602 RWR
• Type 6430 air data computer
• JD-3 TACAN
• KG-9806 internal radar noise jammer
• Type 941-4AC chaff/flare dispenser

The weapons include:

One 30mm cannon with 60 rounds. (At this point, no one cares about guns anymore, I wish it still had 2 like in older models

For underwing, pylons can carry PL-5 and PL-8 missiles.

Compared to J-7II, the sea-level climbing rate was increased from 155m/s to 195m/s. The ferry range was increased from 1500km to 2200km. The G-Limit has increased from 7g to 8g.

F-7MG

The export variant of J-7E

Upgraded with western avionics like Super Sky Ranger Doppler radar (yep, this variant has a radar) which can track up to 8 targets, Marconi HUD, HOTAS controller, EFCS, VHF etc.

 

F-7PG

The export variant of J-7E

It is an improved F-7MG with a search radar (Italian I-band Grifo-7 Doppler pulse radar) with a search range of 37km.

In terms of weaponry, it can carry US-made AIM-9L.

 

J-7G Series

The ultimate and last J-7 variant and the perfection of the J-7 airframe.

This is not a mere upgrade to the J-7E, the airframe was once again refined. The humors were the internal structure and weight distribution were refined and optimised for even better maneuverability. This is why as soon as its introduction, the PLA's aerobatic team replaced their J-7EB (civilian version of J-7E) with J-7GB (civilian version of J-7G)

It has the same double delta wing design from the E series.

It is distinguishable due to its new one-piece front windscreen (like Su-27, so no more 3-piece windscreen)

New I/J-band KLJ-6E Lieying doppler pulse radar. Some source claims that later it was upgraded with KLJ-6F radar with a range of 86km.

New indigenous zero-height, zero-speed ejection seat.

New ECM suits.

Carries PL-8 and PL-9 missiles with a Helmet-mounted sight.

HOTAS controller.

(Check this out, same style of art as our JF-17 module. Probably from the same artist), let's hope we can get this as a module in the future.

J-7G was exported to nations including Tanzania, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh.

I couldn't find a picture of the J-7G cockpit. The only thing I can find is J-7GB (civilian version of J-7G with radar, weapon and RWR removed).

So compare this with the cockpit of J-7PG, we can get a fairly accurate guess of what J-7G's cockpit looks like. Maybe add a RWR to the right of the HUD. And that blank spot to the left of the artificial horizon may be a place for a MFD.

 

J-8

OK, that's very much everything about J-7. Now let's have a look at J-8.

J-8 was developed in response to the introduction of new strategic bombers and recon planes introduced by both the US and the Soviets. Namely U-2, B-58 and Tu-22. The design criteria was sometimes semi-joking referred to as the quadruple-2 criteria. It means the new plane must be faster than 2 Mach, have a climb rate of more than 200m/s, have a service ceiling of at least 20,000m and have a max ferry range of at least 2000km. Both Shenyang and Chengdu competed against each other. Shenyang proposed J-8, while Chengdu proposed a new canard configured plane with one single turbofan engine called J-9. Multiple different designs of J-9 were proposed and tested (see picture below)

In the beginning, the PLA wanted the new plane to be a 3rd gen fighter that matched MiG-23 and F-4. But when the news of the maiden flight of the first 4th gen fighter F-14 reached China in 1970, Chengdu wanted their J-9 to be a 4th gen fighter. After some discussion and testing, the team believes that the reason a 4th gen fighter is so much superior to a 3th gen is because of the following reasons:

1: vortex generated by either canard or wing root extension.

2: unstable design, and must be controlled by a fly-by-wire system.

3: must have a Doppler pulse radar and BVR missiles.

Because of this reason, the J-9 design was revised with the inclusion of canards, thus the J-9VI series was born in September 1971. 

(Above a wind tunnel model  of J-9VI-2)

(Above: a 1:24 model of J-9VI-3 prototype used for wind tunnel testing. China only had a 1:24 wind tunnel at that time) 

(Above:  a model of J-9VI-1 tested. Notice the PL-2 right next to the air intake and PL-4s on its wing)

However, J-9 was later cancelled because it was technologically way too ambitious for China at the time. One of the main issues was the delay in the development of the WS-6 turbofan engine (see picture below).

Combined with the lack of funding, the J-9 project was cancelled. However, the project was not cancelled in vain,  as later the technology and experiences gained were used in the design of J-10 and J-20.

(Picture, Left: J-9VI-1 prototype. Right: J-10)

(Picture, Left: J-9VI-2 prototype. Right: J-20)

After the cancellation of the J-9 project, all funding and support went to the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation's J-8 project.

Shenyang Aircraft Corporation had been working on their interceptor since 1958. Their engineers proposed their Dongfeng 107 and Dongfeng 113 projects.

(picture above: Dongfeng 107 wind tunnel testing)

(picture above: Dongfeng 113 design)

After over 2300 tests, a simpler approach was adopted, which used a delta wing configuration similar to a MiG-21, but with a larger elongated body, with 2 engines for better energy performance and speed. Initially, they wanted to design a fighter that used a single turbofan engine like the J-9. However, the chief designer had doubts that they could get the new WS-6 in time, so to be safe, he decided to use 2 turbojet engines instead. This has proven to be the right engine. J-9 was cancelled because of the WS-6 development problem.

The second issue was its horizontal tail wings, they are at a much lower position relative to the centre fuselage than that on the MiG-21. Those designs might have affected the stability of the plane. During the initial test flight, the pilot noticed heavy noise, shake and vibrations, and the plane could only reach a speed of 1.8 Mach which is much lower than it was designed for.  So the design team worked to try and fix the problem. But the issue is that at the time, China didn't have the 1:1 wind tunnel to analyze the issue (at that point, China only had a 1:10 wind tunnel for testing, so the resolution of the test data was low). 

picture above and below: A 1:10 model of J-8 being tested in the wind tunnel.

To solve the problem, the designer used a most direct and crud way to tackle the problem, he bought 100kg of woollen strings (the very same type your grandmother used to make jumpers for you), cut them into 200mm pieces and tied them up everywhere on the plane. When they send the J-8 prototype for the test flight, the designer will sit inside the back seat of a J-6 fighter with a camera, taking pictures of the flow of those strings. (see pictures below)

Picture below: the designer in the back seat of a JJ-6 fighter trainer jet.

After the flight, they noticed that all strings at the tail near the engine muzzle were blown away indicating the disturbance in the airflow.

So the designer used heat-resistant stainless steel to create a flow funnel (see picture below.)

Afterwards, the plane was sent to test flight again. As soon as the plane took off, the pilot yelled on the radio: "You've done it!! The noise and vibrations are gone!!" The plane also broke through the 2 Mach mark on that flight, indicating that all criteria for J-8 were met, and ready for mass production.

 

Variants

J-8 (the first variant was just called J-8)

Everyone had high hopes for this plane. They planned to put the PL-4 Fox 1 missile on it. However, the development of the fire control radar has fallen behind. So, it only has a ranging radar (see picture below, the ranging radar of the original J-8).

 

It has two 30mm cannons (same configuration as on J-7I), and 4 underwing hardpoints to carry PL-2B missiles or fuel tanks.

And, just like J-7I, its canopy is a one-piece front-hinged one (see picture below).

All of these variants are either converted into recon plane or E variant nowadays.

 

J-8I

Sometimes it is referred to as J-8A.

This variant has received 11 improvements in these avionics, which include:

Type 204 (JL-7) mono-pulse radar (same one used on J-7C), SM-8A optical gunsight, onboard computer, new cockpit panel, a new ejection seat and new oxygen supply system.

The canopy is also redesigned to fit the new ejection seat. So just like a J-7II, the canopy is now a 2-piece rear-hinged (see picture below).

 

See picture below, a J-8 in the front with a J-8I behind it (notice their canopy).

In terms of armament, the two 30mm cannons are replaced by a twin barrel 23mm (the same one we have on the MiG-21bis and J-7III series), and it can now carry PL-5 missiles.

You may be asking, now it has a search radar, how come it doesn’t have PL-4? Because at that point, PL-4 was deemed to be obsoleted.

All J-8I were upgraded to J-8E standards.

 

J-8E

Contrary to popular belief, E does NOT stand for electronic warfare.

This is the last variant of J-8. The main upgrades include JL-7A radar (same one on J-7D), a new all-aspect radar warning receiver and onboard ECM as well as a Type 941 flare/chaff dispenser.

Yes, I know it has installed an ECM device. But it doesn’t mean it is a dedicated electronic warfare plane like EF-18. Just like the Su-27 and MiG-29S which have their own onboard ECM, but they are not EW planes. The only reason it has gotten the letter E was because the previous J-8 variant was called J-8D (which is one of the J-8II series).

 

J-8II Series

As I mentioned before, the original J-8 and J-9 program aimed to create 3rd generation fighters like MiG-23 and F-4. But due to various reasons, the resulting J-8I series was still 2nd generation fighters. So J-8II program was initiated to create a 3rd gen fighter needed.

Unlike the J-8I series which only focused on high altitude high-speed performance, J-8II also focused on increasing its performance at low speed and low altitude. J-8I only had a G limit of 4.7 while the new J-8II series has a G-limit of 6.9 which is roughly the same as F-4.

Although the J--8I and J-8II share the same name and have roughly the same delta wing, but J-8II is a completely new design. The first thing they had to do was to have a new air intake so they could have a bigger nose dome to house a bigger radar to support radar-guided BVR missiles. To achieve this, China obtained a few MiG-23 from Egypt, studied its side air intake and adopted it for the J-8II series. The test shows that the new air intake on J-8II had the same efficiency at high speed and 6% more efficiency at low-speed conditions compared to the J-8I series' central body air intake.

The J-8II also have an electrically controlled tailplane to increase its roll efficiency by 45%.

Compared to the old J-8I which had 4 underwing hardpoints, J-8II have 6 underwing hardpoints. The WP-7 was replaced by newly designed WP-13AII turbojet engines.

J-8II also have a newly designed autopilot.

Variants

J-8II

The first production variant. It has a HK-13 missile fire control system coupled with an indigenous Type 208 mono-pulse fire-control radar, it has a 40km detection range against fighter-size targets. This system is designed to guide PL-4 semi-radar guided missiles (Chinese modified AIM-7D). However, this missile was deemed to be obsolete. So pilots of J-8II can only use PL-5 and later PL-8 IR-guided missiles for dog fight.

 

J-8B

An Improved version. One of the main problems of the first variant was the lack of a glass cockpit (see picture above). This means the pilot has a heavy workload which reduces their situation awareness. So the first priority for the variant is to improve its avionics.

It has an improved Type 208A radar, KJ-8602 RWR, and a fire control computer that is connected to the radar, a hemisphere data computer, a datalink, a communication system, and a loadout manager system. It also has an improved HK-13E HUD instead of HK-13A.

In later production, the Type 208A mono-pulse radar was replaced by the new KLJ-1 Doppler radar and an improved KJ-8602A RWR. 

In the beginning, they wanted to add a PL-10 semi-radar guided missile for BVR engagement. Not to be confused with the current PL-10, which is an advanced IR-guided missile, the old PL-10 was PL-4 upgraded with concept from AIM-7E. However, this missile was still deemed to be obsolete. So once again, the pilot has to make do with WVR missiles.

J-8D

The reason China designed J-8 was to have a long-range interceptor to protect Chinese airspace which covers vast land mass. But it still can't protect Chinese territorial water and islands in the South China Sea. Even with J-8's 3000km range, it cannot reach that far. The only way to reach those islands is to develop an indigenous air refuel system. So J-8D was born. It is basically a J-8B with an indigenous non-retractable refuelling rod.

 

 

J-8G

Official media rarely report this variant if they actually reported this at all. That's why some people doubt the existence of this variant. Some sources from various military enthusiasts and commentators describe this variant as a multi-role variant after some photos showed some J-8II with unguided bombs, rockets and a Kh-31P.  Some source also claims that at least 1 squadron of this variant had been deployed in Xinjiang province.

Since no government source ever reported this variant, my guess is that this so-called J-8G may not be an actual variant but an upgrade package for J-8D, just like how the Soviets made their MiG-23MLD. (Just in case you don't know, no MiG-23MLD was ever built. The MLD was an upgrade package used to upgrade the existing MiG-23MLA)

 

J-8H

Remember, since the beginning of the J-8 program, the PLA wanted a fighter that could perform a BVR air-to-air attack. China certainly put a lot of effort into developing such a system, and due to that effort, China became one of the few nations that can design and build Doppler pulse radars. But even at the time of J-8D/G, J-8 still don't have a BVR missile to use. So China the next step is to focus all of its attention on getting a BVR missile for its air force. 

During the Sino-West honeymoon period, Italy had provided China with a set of its Aspide ship-to-air missile systems. China used it for 2 proposes: 1. upgrade its HQ-61 SAM system to HQ-64. 2. modify the Aspide missile for AA use, which lead to the creation of PL-11 missiles.

There were 3 versions of the PL-11 missiles.

1:  PL-11: Basic variant based on the missile from HQ-61 SAM system and the Aspide missiles.

2: PL-11A: The A variant is an improved variant with a greater range and a more powerful warhead. The improved seeker head requires the guidance of the fire-control radar of the aircraft only during the final stage of the flight.

3: PL-11B:  The active radar guided version of PL-11A, developed by 607 institution. This is one of the many test developments as China tried to get an active radar-guided missile before the creation of the vastly superior PL-12.

picture above: PL-11 missile on J-8H.

Picture below: an early production of J-8H

Picture below: J-8H with its arsenal. (notice the PL-12 on the right. This indicates that the later production may be able to carry PL-12. It can carry a YJ-91 missile for SEAD and anti-ship strike. What doesn't show here is that J-8H can also carry laser-guided bombs.)

picture below: J-8H with a precision bomb.

Picture above: The cockpit shows a multi-function display on the left and an RWR on the right.

J-8H is the second-best variant of the J-8II series and the first Chinese plane with BVR capability. It is the only plane that uses PL-11 as its primary BVR weapon. All J-8II were upgraded to this standard.

 

J-8F

This is the most radical revision of the plane. It is actually a hybrid between a J-8II and a J-8III. it upgraded the J-8II to the 4th-generation fighter standards. It was aimed at countering the threats of F-16s from certain rogue states of China across the strait. I will talk in more detail in the J-8III section. For now, you just need to know that China wants to design its plane with another feature that is commonly found on the western 4th-generation fighters ------- multi-target engagement capability. So the plane must be able to launch 2 missiles at 2 separate targets at the same time.

To achieve this goal, a new JL-10 X-band Doppler pulse radar was developed.

Those pictures were taken during the multi-target attacking test.

picture 1: J-8F launching its missiles.

picture 2: first target was hit.

pictures below, the second target.

J-8F became the first Chinese-designed plane that could attack multiple targets simultaneously. 

Because this variant is a combination of a J-8II and J-8III design, there were a lot of structural differences between this variant and the earlier variant (may have different flight characters too). So to the best of my knowledge, at least as of 2010, the earlier J-8II variant cannot be simply upgraded to these standards. 

There is a way to tell if a J-8II is a J-8F or not. That is its wing. There are 2 wing fences on each wing instead of 1. See picture below.

It can carry PL-12 for BVR engagement and PL-8, and PL-9 for dog fights. It can also carry various air-to-surface missiles and bombs from the previous variants.

It also has a datalink and can carry an EW pod similar to what we have on JF-17 as well as various targeting pods.

picture below, J-8F with an EW pod.

picture below, recon variant J-8F with a recon pod.

As far as the public knowledge, J-8F is the best variant of all J-8. After it entered the service, the production of all previous variants was stopped.

 

J-8T

T stands for Tai Yang Niao (sunbird).

China often sells its older weapons to ASEAN and African nations. Its frigates and submarines are well-liked by those nations. Since those weapons were sold as second-hand goods, the buyers can get a very good deal. After China started to replace its fighter fleet with J-10s and J-20s, those ASEAN and African nations approached China. They were hoping that China could sell them J-8F as a second-hand weapon again. However, China wasn't planning on selling them. Instead, China offered them a new variant with a radar that is so powerful that rival the ones on the F-15C. After some discussion, the buyers realised that a brand new J-8T cost as much as a second-hand F-16, so they decided not to purchase the J-8T. Remember, China loves interceptors because they have large air space to protect. But ASEAN and African nations don't need an interceptor because they don't have a large air space. They prefer a light multirole fighter instead. So they decided to save the money for a second-hand F-16 instead.

By the way, the reason this is called T (sunbird) is because the first nation asking for J-8 was Nigeria and their national bird is the sunbird. (Some source claims that T stands for Thailand and it was Thailand that was the first who wanted a J-8) Nigeria didn't make any purchases in the end as well. They decided to save the money for JF-17. China may have used this as an upgrade for its J-8II fleet. We will never know as the J-8II is no longer the centre of the media attention, no one ever reports them anymore.

 

 

J-8III series

(J-8C)

A battle broke out between Israel and another respectable Middle East nation, the result of their air battle sent shockwaves to China as the Israel F-16 picked the MiG-23s off the sky like flies. Chinese Air Force asks "Our J-8II were designed to march MiG-23. If they can be picked off like that, how well would our J-8II fare against F-16?" So it became obvious that the era of 3rd-generation fighters was gone, China needed a 4th-generation fighter.

There are 2 ways to get a 4th Gen Fighter. 1: import one from a foreign nation. 2: design one ourselves. You know what they say, Only kids make choices, adults want both.

Since it was during the Sino-West honeymoon period, both the Soviets and the West answered.

Soviet offered MiG-29 and Su-27. The US offered the F-14, France offered the Mirage 2000D and the UK offered the Harrier.

The Harrier was the first to be rejected as China wanted a fighter, not an attacker. F-14 was the second to be rejected for being too expansive. The US surely know how to do business, and the price they offer reminds of people the meaning of robbery in broad daylight. 

China was interested in the Mirage 2000 and sent the designer of the J-8 and a pilot to France to check it out. Once there, their French counterpart offered them to test-fly it. See picture below.

After the test flight, the test pilot was impressed with the level of automation that Mirage 2000 offers.  "If the Mirage pilot doesn't make a mistake, J-8II can never beat it. The level of automation in Mirage 2000 allows the pilot to have his undivided attention to the combat" says the Chinese test pilot. After they got back, they decided that China must design its own 4th-generation fighter with this level of automation.

So Shenyang decided to design a 4th gen fighter base on J-8II (the same logic as when the Soviets buffed MiG-25 into MiG-31).

In the design schematics, a pair of small canards will be added in front of the main wing. And if possible, they want this plane to be unstable and will develop a new fly-by-wire system for it.

It will also be able to carry PL-8 and PL-12 missiles and capable of attacking 2 BVR targets simultaneously using PL-12 missiles.

A new more powerful WP-14 engine was also developed for this plane. The HY-4A ejection seat was also added.

Notice, that the prototype had no canards. Because at the time the fly-by-wire system was not out yet.

In 1997, one of the prototypes was transferred to 630 institutions and during that landing, the pilot couldn't see a ditch at the end of the runway due to the heavy fog. (the ditch was there because the base was trying to set up some power cables) And the prototype ran into the ditch and wrecked.

Later, another prototype was burned due to an oil leak. After losing 2 prototypes, Shenyang no longer has any funding to continue the project and all the remaining funding must go to the production of the newly imported Su-27, thus, the J-8III project was cancelled.

All the technologies developed in the J-8III project were used to create the J-8F.

Now the only reminder of this project is the J-8IIACT standing at the Shenyang Aviation Museum (see picture below)

Notice the canard? This plane was used to test the fly-by-wire system design for the J-8III.

OK, Now you know very much everything about J-7 and J-8 variants. Hope this will help you in future when asking Deka for possible future modules 
And I need to go and get something to drink. My eyelids want to shut themselves down.

Edited April 13, 2024 by PLAAF

[Mike_Romeo]

Woah so informative ! You must have spent a lot of time writting and researching all those informations. +10.000.000 social credits

Edited February 15, 2022 by Mike_Romeo

[J20Stronk]

Dang, now I really want a J-7G/PG.

 

A Fishbed at its core but it fixes some niceties of the late 21Bis, reintroducing maneuverability as a major design component and incorporating modern tech like a HUD, INS, TACAN and HMD/S.

Edited February 15, 2022 by J20Stronk

[LowRider88]

Awesome article, great research

I see no way why you prefer the G variant.

Any interest in doing the same for the Q-5?

[PLAAF]

20 hours ago, LowRider88 said:

Awesome article, great research

I see no way why you prefer the G variant.

Any interest in doing the same for the Q-5?

Not no way, yes way. G variant is my favorite and number 1 go to variant if Deka ever want to do a J-7 variant. 

If they want to make 2 variants, then I would like to have a J-7D.

If they want to make 3 variants, I would love to get J-7IIM too.

Edited February 16, 2022 by PLAAF

[LowRider88]

15 hours ago, PLAAF said:

Not no way, yes way. G variant is my favorite and number 1 go to variant if Deka ever want to do a J-7 variant. 

If they want to make 2 variants, then I would like to have a J-7D.

If they want to make 3 variants, I would love to get J-7IIM too.

 

Oh, that was a typo.  "no way" was supposed to be "now".

How about Q-5?

[PLAAF]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:22 PM, LowRider88 said:

Oh, that was a typo.  "no way" was supposed to be "now".

How about Q-5?

Don't know. Maybe if I have time. Beside, Q-5's development life is much less dramatic.

I may write one for the J-8II series, but again that's if I can get enough time.

[PLAAF]

OK guys, that's everything. Finally, it's completed. Enjoy 

[LowRider88]

Originally I was not that excited about the J-8.  Maybe listened too much to western media that said it was a bad plane.  But having looked deeper into the math, I realize now I was fooled.

it is true that China did not build as many of these as the J-6, which was in the thousands.  But I understand now that that is because one J-8 could take the place of several J-6s due to their long range and speed.  Fewer were needed to cover the large Chinese territory.  It was a much more capable and specialized jet.  So it wasn’t built in small number because it was unpopular.

 

It may be large but it is still maneuverable, and definitely no sluggish.

it is longer than an F-15, but it is lighter than an F-18.

in fact, it has a lower wing loading and lower landing touch down speed than an F-18.

This suggests a lower stall speed, which in a turn fight may give the J-8 a turn radius advantage in a 1 circle fight or a scissors against an F-18.  And it does this without LERX, leading edge flaps.

it may not fare as well in the 2 circle fight against an F-18, without relaxed static stability and fly-by-wire, and with a low aspect, large delta wing that bleeds speed, but with a relatively light frame and 2 engines which can propel it to a max speed of 2.4 M, it should be able to reclaim speed easily in a scissors.  Being slightly lighter and with the delta, it could be used to slow down sooner in the scissors.

It may not have as advanced avionics as the F-18, but as mentioned in this thread it can carry the long range PL-12s.

it may carry roughly half the fighting missiles of the F-18, but it most likely was about half the cost of an F-18, and so could potentially outnumber the F-18 in a given theatre match up.

In some ways it was like China’s F-18.  With similar BVR, high speed, long range, and maneuverability, it could do air superiority, ground attack, recon and escort.

 

And the more I look at J-8 pictures the more attractive it gets.

Now I can’t decide between the J-8E, or the J-8F.

Both are sexy in different ways.

 

Really hope Deka can make our dreams come true with a J-8.

 

Searching YouTube online, it seems the J-8 is receiving a whole lot of love from a fan base of a particular free to play multiplayer air quake.  Wishing badly we can get a full fidelity one here.

[Dr_Galactose]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:56 PM, LowRider88 said:

In some ways it was like China’s F-18.  With similar BVR, high speed, long range, and maneuverability, it could do air superiority, ground attack, recon and escort.

It made me wonder what could have been had the J-8III wasn't canceled. 

Sure, it'd probably gain some weight from all the structural refinement to make it able to handle all of those 4th generation stuff, but could be compensate by replacing the engine with Saturn AL-31 or WS-10.

[I'm imagining a version of J-8III with low-visibility paint and full load of PL-12 patrolling the sky now. What a sight]

Regardless, any version of J-8 within DCS would be massively welcome.

[fow5ll]

555，DIS的下一个机型到底是什么

[Torbernite]

I have been wondering that but after seeing the disaster of June 7th update, I choose to wish they could finish JF to a relative stable state first.

[Bremspropeller]

The J-8 won't sell. The J-7 will. Especially the earlyer versions, which are generally close to the MiG-21F-13, which everybody and their grandma flew east of the Iron Curtain.

 

[Badger1-1]

13 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

The J-8 won't sell. The J-7 will. Especially the earlyer versions, which are generally close to the MiG-21F-13, which everybody and their grandma flew east of the Iron Curtain.

 

I disagree, everything even a small acrobatic plane will sell....plus I bet Deka is behind the C130 and are laughing about all our wrong guesses

[KL0083]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:15 AM, fow5ll said:

555，DIS的下一个机型到底是什么

Y8

[PLAAF]

8 hours ago, KL0083 said:

Y8

I also heard that once. lol

But to be honest, if they are going to make a transporter, I prefer Y-5.

[Stratos]

I will love a J-7, specially the variant exported to Pakistan, so we can use on the possible Afghan map!

[Harlikwin]

Surprised I haven't seen this till now. Thanks for the write up. One thing if you happen to know it, where were the in-service dates for the various variants? 

[PLAAF]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:30 AM, Harlikwin said:

Surprised I haven't seen this till now. Thanks for the write up. One thing if you happen to know it, where were the in-service dates for the various variants? 

Hi, sorry for the late reply.  I will check them when I got a chance. I had been drowning with work and real life issues. Haven't had chance to even play DCS for months until yesterday.

[ak22]

Thank you for the right up I would love to see some more Chinese planes, especially ones that came from soviet design.  

[PLAAF]

They are carrying out the retirement ceremony for J-8s. Very soon, all J-8 and J-7 will retire from the service. The plan is to retire all 2nd and 3rd gen fighters by  2025. Then Deka will have no problem making any variants of those 2 planes. Also, there are J-8's DCS clip in this video. So I was thinking, maybe Deka already made the module, and just waiting for the Chinese government's go-ahead to release it. 
By the way, the english subtitles are not very well translated, but good enough for you to get the idea of what they are trying to say.

Edited January 19, 2023 by PLAAF

[F-2]

1 hour ago, PLAAF said:

They are carrying out the retirement ceremony for J-8s. Very soon, all J-8 and J-7 will retire from the service. The plan is to retire all 2nd and 3rd gen fighters by  2025. Then Deka will have no problem making any variants of those 2 planes. Also, there are J-8's DCS clip in this video. So I was thinking, maybe Deka already made the module, and just waiting for the Chinese government's go-ahead to release it. 
By the way, the english subtitles are not very well translated, but good enough for you to get the idea of what they are trying to say.

 

Fc3 su-27/33 cockpit, probably a mod, though they might be working on it.

 

a J-8II with the advanced radar and Pl-11 would be great.

[FlankerFan35]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:21 AM, F-2 said:

Fc3 su-27/33 cockpit, probably a mod, though they might be working on it.

 

a J-8II with the advanced radar and Pl-11 would be great.

a J-8D/F with option for PL-11 and PL-12 would b even cooler!

 

[F-2]

23 hours ago, FlankerFan35 said:

a J-8D/F with option for PL-11 and PL-12 would b even cooler!

 

I’m curious if the J-8 has any capacity for bfm or if it’s a pure interceptor

[FlankerFan35]

7 hours ago, F-2 said:

I’m curious if the J-8 has any capacity for bfm or if it’s a pure interceptor

It would lose to nearly everything in bfm.