OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, Sr. said:

https://www.bigtechwire.com/2023/01/20/microsoft-fires-entire-mixed-reality-toolkit-mrtk-development-team/?amp=1

 

Thread already here:

 

[speed-of-heat]

Fingers crossed for @mbucchiaand his team, and all those impacted.

[speed-of-heat]

it does not look great:

Microsoft has laid off entire teams behind Virtual, Mixed Reality, and HoloLens | Windows Central

Quote

In addition to the death of AltSpaceVR, Microsoft has also culled the entire team behind the popular MRTK framework. MRTK(opens in new tab) is Microsoft's "Mixed Reality Tool Kit," which is a cross-platform framework for spatial anchors in virtual reality spaces. MRTK was built for Unity VR integrations, and works with Meta's headsets with a focus on HoloLens. 

 

[slughead]

This is the Mixed Reality "Tool Kit" though. That's not the same as the Windows Mixed Reality app. I expect that WMR will continue and they've just laid off everyone related to the US military contract. Domestic users like us most likely won't be affected.

The US Army IVAS contract was based on using commercial technology and militarising it which is not an easy task. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out yet they've not ditched plans entirely and are continuing to work with Microsoft according to this extract from Moving on: Army and Microsoft agree on path ahead for IVAS with latest 1.2 variant - Breaking Defense.

 

null

Here's another showing it is just related to the US army contract.

Microsoft to Cut Back Staff for US Army's IVAS Headset amid Layoffs - XR Today

[speed-of-heat]

8 minutes ago, slughead said:

This is the Mixed Reality "Tool Kit" though. That's not the same as the Windows Mixed Reality app. I expect that WMR will continue and they've just laid off everyone related to the US military contract. Domestic users like us most likely won't be affected.

The US Army IVAS contract was based on using commercial technology and militarising it which is not an easy task. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out yet they've not ditched plans entirely and are continuing to work with Microsoft according to this extract from Moving on: Army and Microsoft agree on path ahead for IVAS with latest 1.2 variant - Breaking Defense.

 

null

Here's another showing it is just related to the US army contract.

Microsoft to Cut Back Staff for US Army's IVAS Headset amid Layoffs - XR Today

Fingers remain crossed!

[Sr.]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:34 AM, speed-of-heat said:

Fingers crossed for @mbucchiaand his team, and all those impacted.

 

[nikoel]

[trama1983]

So... We have now native openxr support in DCS (without even mentioning in the change log). But on the other side reproyection with openxr is not working anymore ... Not even with opencomposite now. 

I wasn't using repro with opencomposite, but for those that did use it, this release is bad news.... At least until ED release a hotfix either for fixing this for good or for disabling openxr support until this is fix...

To blow hot and cold....

Edited January 26, 2023 by trama1983

[Baldrick33]

4 minutes ago, trama1983 said:

So... We have now native openxr support in DCS (without even mentioning in the change log). But on the other side reproyection with openxr is not working anymore ... Not even with opencomposite now. 

I wasn't using repro with opencomposite, but for those that did use it, this release is bad news.... At least until ED release a hotfix either for fixing this for good or for disabling openxr support until this is fix...

To blow hot and cold....

 

OpenBeta breaks stuff. The biggest issue is the lack of any kind of notes for what is a fundamental change to how VR works for many people (those that used SteamVR or those that used opencomposite.

So many have faffed around trying to fix things without knowledge of the change.

Also the who "best for multiplayer" catch phrase for a version that regularly breaks stuff seems unwise but that is a whole other story

[Sr.]

oh ffs...

[nikoel]

Before this thread finally comes to rest wanted to see if anyone else had a similar result to me after upgrading to the native implementation

I did not want to uninstall OpenComp because I was using it with "the other sims" [that everyone here knows about]. So, I just right clicked dcs inside OpenComposite and told DCS to use its own default runtime

Looks like ED agreed with me, and thought they'd rather give you CTD than waterboard you with reprojection. Nice feature.

The performance is… mixed. Slightly worse GPU frametimes.
Much better CPU frametimes.
Slightly worse picture at the same settings. A boatload of shimmer.
Smoother even with my I-will-die-on-this-hill 55FPS locked state. How?!
No double vision or ghosting at all in dog fights (wut?!) 

My conclusion is: つ ◕_◕༽つ whiplash with a side of meh! 

Edited January 27, 2023 by nikoel

[speed-of-heat]

Hmm I couldn't get Turbo to work, it kept on crashing and hanging, which for me accounts from r a 10-12 fps delta... And not in a good way

[chichowalker]

44 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

Hmm I couldn't get Turbo to work, it kept on crashing and hanging, which for me accounts from r a 10-12 fps delta... And not in a good way

Same here, with turbomode active Sim crashes same way as with Repro ON....

[chichowalker]

4 hours ago, nikoel said:

Before this thread finally comes to rest wanted to see if anyone else had a similar result to me after upgrading to the native implementation

I did not want to uninstall OpenComp because I was using it with "the other sims" [that everyone here knows about]. So, I just right clicked dcs inside OpenComposite and told DCS to use its own default runtime

Looks like ED agreed with me, and thought they'd rather give you CTD than waterboard you with reprojection. Nice feature.

The performance is… mixed. Slightly worse GPU frametimes.
Much better CPU frametimes.
Slightly worse picture at the same settings. A boatload of shimmer.
Smoother even with my I-will-die-on-this-hill 55FPS locked state. How?!
No double vision or ghosting at all in dog fights (wut?!) 

My conclusion is: つ ◕_◕༽つ whiplash with a side of meh! 

 

Yestarday we flow one liberation mission in 70s. Lots of merges with fishbed, in all I lost tally due to double vision and ghosting. Thanks for fucking the retroprojection. Very good FPPs but its imposible to fly properly now....

[Marklar]

21 minutes ago, chichowalker said:

Same here, with turbomode active Sim crashes same way as with Repro ON....

Start DCS with --force_steam_VR parameter and both reprojection and turbo will work without crashing the game. I use custom openvr_api.dll file so the game still uses openxr, despite this parameter. Below are screenshots I took a few minutes ago. It's the latest OB version. If I start DCS without --force_steam_VR the game crashes in the menu or when loading a mission.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Marklar

[edmuss]

11 minutes ago, Marklar said:

Start DCS with --force_steam_VR parameter and both reprojection and turbo will work without crashing the game. I use custom openvr_api.dll file so the game still uses openxr, despite this parameter. Below are screenshots I took a few minutes ago. It's the latest OB version. If I start DCS without --force_steam_VR the game crashes in the menu or when loading a mission.

Essentially you're simply bypassing the native openxr and reverting to using openvr with open composite; should be an acceptable workaround until the code is fixed for reprojection with native openxr

[Marklar]

1 minute ago, edmuss said:

Essentially you're simply bypassing the native openxr and reverting to using openvr with open composite; should be an acceptable workaround until the code is fixed for reprojection with native openxr

Simple but works. At least I can play DCS.

Does DCS perform better with the native openxr (assuming it does not crash) when comparing to opencomposite? 

[chichowalker]

12 minutes ago, Marklar said:

Simple but works. At least I can play DCS.

Does DCS perform better with the native openxr (assuming it does not crash) when comparing to opencomposite? 

Can you tell me which .dll are you using? And can you confirm your performance still the same it was before the patch?

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by chichowalker

[edmuss]

25 minutes ago, Marklar said:

Simple but works. At least I can play DCS.

Does DCS perform better with the native openxr (assuming it does not crash) when comparing to opencomposite? 

I think my GPU frametimes have dropped slightly but I've not done any scientific or in depth testing yet.

[Marklar]

1 hour ago, chichowalker said:

Can you tell me which .dll are you using? And can you confirm your performance still the same it was before the patch?

 

 

 

https://znix.xyz/OpenComposite/download.php?arch=x64&branch=openxr

performance seems to be the same as before, still <profanity>. CPU frametimes still hit 50ms on Enigma server.

In today's patch ED reverted the changes for VR so you can start the game as before Wednesday patch.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Marklar

[markturner1960]

Right, I  am really confused now......( easily done...)

Today has a new hotfix.....Since Wednesday, I have turned off the toolkit via the desktop app and left motion reprojection set to automatic in the open composite settings (effectively disabled, yes?) VR is working, but not as nicely as it was before, some noticeable doubling on buildings and slight stutter on panning around. 

Can I now use reprojection again? Should I use steamVr? Which .dll....? How to apply the force steamvr parameter...? I was also using NIS at 100% before Wednesdays patch and it looked great....why are people saying dont use this? 

 

My head hurts......

[Cathnan]

34 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Right, I  am really confused now......( easily done...)

Today has a new hotfix.....Since Wednesday, I have turned off the toolkit via the desktop app and left motion reprojection set to automatic in the open composite settings (effectively disabled, yes?) VR is working, but not as nicely as it was before, some noticeable doubling on buildings and slight stutter on panning around. 

Can I now use reprojection again? Should I use steamVr? Which .dll....? How to apply the force steamvr parameter...? I was also using NIS at 100% before Wednesdays patch and it looked great....why are people saying dont use this? 

 

My head hurts......

From what I understand you can use OpenXR. create a shortcut to the DCS.exe and add --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR in the target line. Leave a single space right after "
I was greeted by the openXR Toolkit, so I assume it works. Can't help with reprojection, but it is supposed to be fixed by the hotfix, so it should work.

[slughead]

nullNo longer depreciated? 

[speed-of-heat]

5 hours ago, edmuss said:

I think my GPU frametimes have dropped slightly but I've not done any scientific or in depth testing yet.

Version	FPS	10% Low	1% Low	0.1% Low	app CPU(ms)	render CPU(ms)	GPU (ms)	FPS	app CPU	render CPU	GPU	Notes
2.8.1.34667	75.35	68.81	66.88	63.50	13.35	10.15	13.06	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	Baseline for 2.8.1.34667
2.8.2.35632.2	62.52	54.76	53.62	53.23	11.86	9.12	12.95	-12.83	1.49	1.03	0.10	Baseline for 2.8.1.35632.2
2.8.2.35632.2	63.27	54.96	53.51	53.40	11.76	9.06	12.78	-12.08	1.58	1.09	0.28	HAM On
2.8.2.35759	74.43	67.86	65.77	61.83	13.52	10.37	13.18	-0.92	-0.17	-0.22	-0.13	OpenXR via Opencomposite, HAM No longer available , Turbo back On.
2.8.2.35759	64.66	54.00	53.45	53.35	10.66	8.09	13.19	-10.69	2.69	2.06	-0.14	OpenXR via DCS, HAM ON , Turbo back OFF
2.8.2.35759	60.38	53.06	51.64	51.00	11.94	10.82	13.44	-14.97	1.41	-0.67	-0.38	OpenXR via Opencomposite, HAM No longer available , Turbo Off

 

as far as I can tell DCS is marginally quicker, than going via open composite, unless you use Turbo mode.

 

[slughead]

1 minute ago, speed-of-heat said:

Version	FPS	10% Low	1% Low	0.1% Low	app CPU(ms)	render CPU(ms)	GPU (ms)	FPS	app CPU	render CPU	GPU	Notes
2.8.1.34667	75.35	68.81	66.88	63.50	13.35	10.15	13.06	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	Baseline for 2.8.1.34667
2.8.2.35632.2	62.52	54.76	53.62	53.23	11.86	9.12	12.95	-12.83	1.49	1.03	0.10	Baseline for 2.8.1.35632.2
2.8.2.35632.2	63.27	54.96	53.51	53.40	11.76	9.06	12.78	-12.08	1.58	1.09	0.28	HAM On
2.8.2.35759	74.43	67.86	65.77	61.83	13.52	10.37	13.18	-0.92	-0.17	-0.22	-0.13	OpenXR via Opencomposite, HAM No longer available , Turbo back On.
2.8.2.35759	64.66	54.00	53.45	53.35	10.66	8.09	13.19	-10.69	2.69	2.06	-0.14	OpenXR via DCS, HAM ON , Turbo back OFF
2.8.2.35759	60.38	53.06	51.64	51.00	11.94	10.82	13.44	-14.97	1.41	-0.67	-0.38	OpenXR via Opencomposite, HAM No longer available , Turbo Off

 

as far as I can tell DCS is marginally quicker, than going via open composite, unless you use Turbo mode.

 

HAM?