OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[winghunter]

5 hours ago, exil said:

Just to pin the problem down I would try different locations with different aircraft. Not that it helps you with the F14 though. I am absouloutly happy with every aircraft I own except for the apache. So, for me that means currently repro off for the apache and on for every other aircraft. 

But the problem sounds very similar to mine. My GPU usage went down to 35% when the FPS drops to 20 and it won't come back again. Only when I change aircraft and wait about a minute it'll stabilize at 45 or 30 fps. 

I had a feeling that it wasnt caused by a specific aircraft, even though the tomcat is GPU heavy. It wasnt the foveated rendering in XR toolkit either.

So i re-installed openXR dev tools, as my render scaling never worked. After reinstall, render scaling now finally works in DCS. Also "use latest preview" is unticked, maybe that caused the issue ? Not sure, have to try with "on".

Overall the game is now really smooth even in the 20s to 30s fps range. However it looks considerably worse than with steamVR at 80% (same DCS graphics settings). I dont think the render scaling is calculated equally for steamVR and openXR.

80% in openXR results in 2816x2756, while steamVR claims the same resolution.

 

However, in game there is a noticable introduction of jagged edges and lower pixel density with openXR. Just look at the carrier deck edge in these screenshots.

SteamVR 80%:

openXR 80%:

Edited March 27, 2022 by winghunter

[winghunter]

So, after some more testing "latest preview" is not to blame, it gives even better frame rates. However it should be recommnded that people REINSTALL OPENXR DEV TOOLS, especially when they installed them before due to MSFS. Even though i was on the latest version, something wasnt properly updated. After reinstall, the framerate lock is gone and also openXR scaling works.

6 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

Doing all this somehow magically fixed MSFS performance which has always been rubbish with OpenXR. I guess I must have had some legacy issue with my OpenXR install (I had an early developers version which was reporting the latest runtime.) and must have updated something.

Are you referring to OpenXR Developer Tools ? Have just had the same experience, reinstalling them would improve frame-rate drastically. I also had installed them many month ago due to MSFS and they were "supposedly" updated to latest version.

Edited March 27, 2022 by winghunter

[edmuss]

45 minutes ago, winghunter said:

I had a feeling that it wasnt caused by a specific aircraft, even though the tomcat is GPU heavy. It wasnt the foveated rendering in XR toolkit either.

So i re-installed openXR dev tools, as my render scaling never worked. After reinstall, render scaling now finally works in DCS. Also "use latest preview" is unticked, maybe that caused the issue ? Not sure, have to try with "on".

Overall the game is now really smooth even in the 20s to 30s fps range. However it looks considerably worse than with steamVR at 80% (same DCS graphics settings). I dont think the render scaling is calculated equally for steamVR and openXR.

80% in openXR results in 2816x2756, while steamVR claims the same resolution.

 

However, in game there is a noticable introduction of jagged edges and lower pixel density with openXR. Just look at the carrier deck edge in these screenshots.

SteamVR 80%:

openXR 80%:

 

Not too sure if your reinstall of the dev tools fixed this but this is from mine running at 80%, ok it's not supercarrier but it's boat picture

The aliasing on the edge of the flight deck is no worse than the aliasing of the cockpit frame, and is invisible in the headset.

edit: I don't have any antialiasing applied.

Edited March 27, 2022 by edmuss

[Baldrick33]

12 minutes ago, winghunter said:

Are you referring to OpenXR Developer Tools ? Have just had the same experience, reinstalling them would improve frame-rate drastically. I also had installed them many month ago due to MSFS and they were "supposedly" updated to latest version.

 

Yes, I had an early version for MSFS VR development testing as part of the Windows Insider thingy.

[The_Nephilim]

Does anybody else have the Sound of the WMR go real loud when it starts the 2nd time.. I tried mutting it in the Sound mixer but it keeps enabling itself to back on and is super loud in the G2 headset.. IS there a way to forever turn off the sound when WMR Opens and closes??

 

When it opens I get the blue pyramids all over the screen then it thunks back to desktop and the 2nd time it loads the sound is macced volume very wierd..

 

Also MR does not seem to be working I am on the latest version of this fix and use the tools program.

[winghunter]

17 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Not too sure if your reinstall of the dev tools fixed this but this is from mine running at 80%, ok it's not supercarrier but it's boat picture

The aliasing on the edge of the flight deck is no worse than the aliasing of the cockpit frame, and is invisible in the headset.

edit: I don't have any antialiasing applied.

That looks about the same as my 80% openXR. At least center of the image, as i have FOV rendering applied.

Im running 2x MSAA though. Not sure what steamVR does differently with 80% scaling, why it looks better. I have to check further.

Edited March 27, 2022 by winghunter

[winghunter]

On 3/25/2022 at 5:54 PM, Pikey said:

Hi thanks for your response.
The loss of 20 FPS when you can dip lower than 45 is damaging to me since the screen is a juddery mess at the 22.5 fps mark which can be reached quite often in big MP servers. For everything not data related It will remain my opinion which is unaffected by your own.

We aren't talking about negligble performance gains, I am citing a recorded straight up loss of 33% against SteamVR. WHere I had 90, it was 60. That theme continued when frames dipped to 30 and I got 20. If this doesn't bother anyone then my post shouldnt be of interest and can be safely ignored.

Can you try re-installing OpenXR Developer Tools ? That fixed this issue for me, now my frame rate doesnt get tanked any more. I had installed it for MSFS months ago, and it was supposedly up to date. But reinstalling fixed this issue so something must have gone  wrong with the updates.

[Fish]

4 hours ago, exil said:

Umm, did you see my answer above? 

Thanks for your reply, I already did a meticulous repair before undertaking this test. I tried what you suggested, but still getting the same error.

[TZeer]

So tested the OpenXR last night with the settings in the screenshot on a G2, 6900XT, 5800X, 32 GB RAM.

1. Test: Apache in Nevada on Groom lake airfield. No MR. 60-70 FPS. Better image quality than SteamVR. No doubt. Also better "flow" of the image than SteamVR. But still to much stutter
for my personal taste. I'm very sensitive for stutter/lag etc. So other would maybe felt it was awesome.

2. Test: Same scene, but with MR activated. Smooth as silk @ 45 FPS. But I had that with SteamVR as well, but much better picture quality with less shimmering with OpenXR.

3. Test: Syria out in the countryside with the Apache. 30 FPS, MR on. But with some stuttering here and there. Not sure what causes it. Maybe reduce my preload radius or something.

4. Test: Caucasus, Apache and A-10C II, both giving me 30 FPS with MR on. A little surprised here that it was not able to give me 45 FPS with MR on. But if I would have noticed 45 vs 30? Doubt it.

So far very happy with the results. If there is anything I want to kick on, it would have to be the quality of the MR. It has to get better. There are 3 places it sticks out ot me, where I had no problem in Steam VR.
- Lower part of the IHADSS when you looking out left or right. Specially the FOV squared box becomes very "teared" when looking to the sides.
- Upper part of the IHADSS when it overlaps the rotorblades.
- Small distortion in the Left MPD when at the default engine page.

But overall, a positive upgrade.

Edited March 28, 2022 by TZeer

[Thanatos31]

24 minutes ago, TZeer said:

So tested the OpenXR last night with the settings in the screenshot on a G2, 6900XT, 5800X, 32 GB RAM.

1. Test: Apache in Nevada on Groom lake airfield. No MR. 60-70 FPS. Better image quality than SteamVR. No doubt. Also better "flow" of the image than SteamVR. But still to much stutter
for my personal taste. I'm very sensitive for stutter/lag etc. So other would maybe felt it was awesome.

2. Test: Same scene, but with MR activated. Smooth as silk @ 45 FPS. But I had that with SteamVR as well, but much better picture quality with less shimmering with OpenXR.

3. Test: Syria out in the countryside with the Apache. 30 FPS, MR on. But with some stuttering here and there. Not sure what causes it. Maybe reduce my preload radius or something.

4. Test: Caucasus, Apache and A-10C II, both giving me 30 FPS with MR on. A little surprised here that it was not able to give me 45 FPS with MR on. But if I would have noticed 45 vs 30? Doubt it.

So far very happy with the results. If there is anything I want to kick on, it would have to be the quality of the MR. It has to get better. There are 3 places it sticks out ot me, where I had no problem in Steam VR.
- Lower part of the IHADSS when you looking out left or right. Specially the FOV squared box becomes very "teared" when looking to the sides.
- Upper part of the IHADSS when it overlaps the rotorblades.
- Small distortion in the Left MPD when at the default engine page.

But overall, a positive upgrade.

 

Baffled - I have the same setupt apart from the 6900 being a 6700 - and I cant get anything close to that...need to find that linchpin in my system...

[TED]

1 hour ago, TZeer said:

So tested the OpenXR last night with the settings in the screenshot on a G2, 6900XT, 5800X, 32 GB RAM.

1. Test: Apache in Nevada on Groom lake airfield. No MR. 60-70 FPS. Better image quality than SteamVR. No doubt. Also better "flow" of the image than SteamVR. But still to much stutter
for my personal taste. I'm very sensitive for stutter/lag etc. So other would maybe felt it was awesome.

2. Test: Same scene, but with MR activated. Smooth as silk @ 45 FPS. But I had that with SteamVR as well, but much better picture quality with less shimmering with OpenXR.

3. Test: Syria out in the countryside with the Apache. 30 FPS, MR on. But with some stuttering here and there. Not sure what causes it. Maybe reduce my preload radius or something.

4. Test: Caucasus, Apache and A-10C II, both giving me 30 FPS with MR on. A little surprised here that it was not able to give me 45 FPS with MR on. But if I would have noticed 45 vs 30? Doubt it.

So far very happy with the results. If there is anything I want to kick on, it would have to be the quality of the MR. It has to get better. There are 3 places it sticks out ot me, where I had no problem in Steam VR.
- Lower part of the IHADSS when you looking out left or right. Specially the FOV squared box becomes very "teared" when looking to the sides.
- Upper part of the IHADSS when it overlaps the rotorblades.
- Small distortion in the Left MPD when at the default engine page.

But overall, a positive upgrade.

 

try dropping the vis range from ultra to high.

resolution to lowest on dcs menu (its your screen, not vr headset)

lens effects off

AF off.

Set openXR to 100%. I get steady 45fps in the missions you described with mr on. 
 

 

[MarcT-NL]

AF off ?  I actually don't realy know what this is, but I read everywhere that this setting has no effect on framerates.

Oh, and I also read: on the Gameplay-tab you should untick Wake Turbulence because that is very CPU-intense.

[TZeer]

OpenXR are already at 100%.

Was unaware I had visibility range at ultra . AF never had much impact on performance when running via SteamVR, never did the resolution. But will test it out.
Thanks!

[nikoel]

50 minutes ago, TED said:

try dropping the vis range from ultra to high.

resolution to lowest on dcs menu (its your screen, not vr headset)

lens effects off

AF off.

Set openXR to 100%. I get steady 45fps in the missions you described with mr on. 
 

 

 

Also, turn shadows to Low and Terrain shadows to flat - the exchange is worth it

Edited March 28, 2022 by nikoel

[nikoel]

Please launch WMRP before launching DCS - please let me know if any of you get different performance doing this vs just double clicking the icon - please restart your system between the two tries. Suspect something is not able to launch in time within WMRP whilst it and DCS are loading at the same time

Also I've been told there is something weird with Steam version of WMRP, and to use MS Store version. I don't know, but thought I'd leave this here as well

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by nikoel

[edmuss]

For reference I always prestart WMRP before DCS, just a habit I've gotten into with this.

I'll try reinstalling WMR4SVR from the MS store rather than steam, I wasn't actually aware there were two sources available.  This might also help to explain some of the differing results people have been getting, particularly with the reprojection bubbling.

I've also started getting brief blackouts during the loading screens for a second or so at a time, not sure if it's related but at one point I was getting none.  It doesn't appear to affect anything so more of an observation for now.

Edited March 28, 2022 by edmuss

[ColinM9991]

Speaking of reprojection bubbling, do we have any steps for resolving this? 

 

I get generally good performance but tried with reprojection on Saturday and had quite a bad case of bubbling. 

 

Running on Windows 10 with a fresh install of DCS, OpenXR Toolkit and OpenXR for developers, Steam version of DCS, WMR4SVR installed via Steam too. 

[Thanatos31]

Hi Team - 
I had posted this here already: 

but maybe this thread is better?
 

Quote

I’ll need to explore what I’m doing wrong / missing. I’ve followed the standard VR optimization guide from Thud ; but I feel like the system is still running poorly. 
even with the new hype around OpenXR and a decent performance improvement, I’ll have FPS drops from 35/40 to 4 in MP games ; or the complete black screen. 
(Maybe this is due to the Apache module?) 

Can someone point me to an easy tutorial to optimize the CPU affinity ? I have downloaded the lasso, but can't figure out how to change the CORE distribution / correlation specific to the DCS process. 

Also- 
as per above:

ReverbG2
Ryzen 5600x 
AMD RX6700XT 
32GB
SSD install. 

My current settings - and with OXR, without FSR , I am roughly 40 FPS in a jet , closer to constat 30/35ish within the apache close to ground. (Locking to 45FPS per OXR tools) 

The thing that is really annoying are spikes/lags- in which I see a drop down to 20-14FPS, sometimes then leading into a black screen on the reverb for 1-5 seconds. 

Where do I start if I've looked at most of the other points outlined here as well as elsewhere.
I feel like I should be running this with better results...

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Thanatos31

[edmuss]

9 minutes ago, ColinM9991 said:

Speaking of reprojection bubbling, do we have any steps for resolving this? 

 

I get generally good performance but tried with reprojection on Saturday and had quite a bad case of bubbling. 

 

Running on Windows 10 with a fresh install of DCS, OpenXR Toolkit and OpenXR for developers, Steam version of DCS, WMR4SVR installed via Steam too. 

I was getting loads of bubbly artifacts where I shouldn't have (like in the middle of the MFDs) when frametimes were plenty high enough.  The following fixed it for me, it shouldn't have done but it did: -

In the SVR developer settings set the current OXR runtime from WMR to SVR.

Close SVR and WMRP and reopen WMRP only, it should show up a message at the top of the desktop mirror that says that WMR is not set to the OXR runtime. Click here to fix it.

Reprojection now works as well as it ever has done for me in WMR4SVR.  It still ghosts a little but it's absolutely rock solid down to 30hz bracket.  I think if you do drop down to the 22hz bracket than bubbles is inevitable.

[winghunter]

16 minutes ago, ColinM9991 said:

Speaking of reprojection bubbling, do we have any steps for resolving this?

reinstalling openXR developer tools improved this a lot

[edmuss]

@Thanatos31 are your frametimes better as expected in other modules rather than the apache?

Notice you've got textures high, from what I understand switching from high to medium makes a huge difference on the apache.  You've (only) got 12gb so perhaps it's blowing through it all.

[MagsMagsen]

People seem to confuse WMRP with WMR4SVR. They are not the same thing, right?

Personally I only ever get a smooth experience with OpenXR Motion Smoothing on. Amazing stuff!

With Motion Smoothing turned off I get a juddery experience, even at 60-70 fps. Does this mean it's alternating between 45 and 90 FPS? Or what does it mean?

 

I agree with previous comments that OpenXR needs a setting for us to LOCK (limit) the framerate to 45 even when we have Motion Smoothing turned off.

[edmuss]

1 minute ago, MagsMagsen said:

People seem to confuse WMRP with WMR4SVR. They are not the same thing, right?

Personally I only ever get a smooth experience with OpenXR Motion Smoothing on. Amazing stuff!

With Motion Smoothing turned off I get a juddery experience, even at 60-70 fps. Does this mean it's alternating between 45 and 90 FPS? Or what does it mean?

 

I agree with previous comments that OpenXR needs a setting for us to LOCK (limit) the framerate to 45 even when we have Motion Smoothing turned off.

No they're not the same thing, it's a translation layer that I understand brute forces the WMR to SVR by copying the framebuffers over.  It's not the most efficient method!

If smoothing is off then the fps you're seeing is the fps that your gpu is capable of supplying and you're just sensitive to judder at that particular framerate.

If smoothing is on then the only time the framerate will be anything other than 90/45/30 is when it's switching refresh rate bracket and it's just the average framerates over the time it takes to make the change.

I suspect that if you were to lock it to 45fps without smoothing then you would be rather uncomfortable.  I can run down to 55fps without smoothing with perfect smoothness, 50 I can see the stutter when looking sideways, 45 it's noticeable and much below 40 it's unpleasant.

[Baldrick33]

11 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I suspect that if you were to lock it to 45fps without smoothing then you would be rather uncomfortable.  I can run down to 55fps without smoothing with perfect smoothness, 50 I can see the stutter when looking sideways, 45 it's noticeable and much below 40 it's unpleasant.

That is exactly as I see it. 45fps with motion smoothing is 90fps with a frame added per frame. 45fps without motion smoothing is 45fps. I don't see any benefit in running at half native refresh without motion smoothing. 45fps becomes a "magic" number with motion smoothing as it was the minimum in SVR to enable smoothing, so maintaining 45 became the goal for smoothness. I don't believe 45 has any relevance with motion smoothing off.

Personally anything less than 90 with motion smoothing off is noticeable so motion smoothing is always essential for me.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Baldrick33

[nikoel]

People who are struggling with SteamVR launching make sure you actually install OpenXR Runtime

(And of course you have a clean install of DCS as well)