The F-35 Thread

[EasyEB]

But do they though? Modern engines just up and stall I mean. I'm not saying they don't, just curious if there are any statistics covering the last 15 years or so?

[SkateZilla]

But do they though? Modern engines just up and stall I mean. I'm not saying they don't, just curious if there are any statistics covering the last 15 years or so?

 

The Virginia Beach F-18D Crash in 2012, that took out several apartment buildings, had a Fuel Fire in the intake which caused the engine to fail, just after take off. (I think the report said 5 seconds after wheels up).

 

Pilot went full throttle on left engine, which was unable to light the afterburners, report didnt say way, but I imagine the onboard computer would block the AB from lighting if there's a fuel leak.

 

and the aircraft struggled to maintain altitude on single engine military thrust,

 

Pilot and WSO began dumping fuel over 264 and surrounding areas and kept aircraft trajectory under control until the last minute and ejected, plane slammed down into a courtyard of apartments, narrowly missing the school.

 

Navy Listed it as a RARE dual engine failure.

[aaron886]

But if it stalls completely, it stalls, and you limp home on one engine.

You... restart it. :huh:

 

The Virginia Beach F-18D Crash in 2012, that took out several apartment buildings, had a Fuel Fire in the intake which caused the engine to fail, just after take off. (I think the report said 5 seconds after wheels up).

 

Pilot went full throttle on left engine, which was unable to light the afterburners, report didnt say way, but I imagine the onboard computer would block the AB from lighting if there's a fuel leak.

 

and the aircraft struggled to maintain altitude on single engine military thrust,

 

Pilot and WSO began dumping fuel over 264 and surrounding areas and kept aircraft trajectory under control until the last minute and ejected, plane slammed down into a courtyard of apartments, narrowly missing the school.

 

Navy Listed it as a RARE dual engine failure.

Yeah that's a failure due to a fire. I assume this isn't in response to the "how often do modern fighter engines stall" question, because the Oceana Class-A was obviously not a stalled engine (or engines.)

[SkateZilla]

You... restart it. :huh:

 

 

Yeah that's a failure due to a fire. I assume this isn't in response to the "how often do modern fighter engines stall" question, because the Oceana Class-A was obviously not a stalled engine (or engines.)

 

The Engine Stalled due to Fuel Leak, Fumes, and Fire in the intake suffocating it,

the engine itself wasn't on fire.

 

The other Engine's AB was locked out due to fuel leak (had the AB actually light, his aircraft likely woulda been engulfed, since he was leaking fuel long before he started dumping it.)

 

Engines can and have stalled due to mechanical failures before w/ the engine or the fuel systems, in which case they arent always able to be re-started.

[aaron886]

Ok, I guess that's fair enough. Conversationally, I usually hear "stall" in reference to an airflow problem or FOD ingestion, and I was under the impression the Oceana mishap was a structural fire, not located in the intake (of all places.) I'll take your word for it until I can find and read the probable cause.

 

Edit: I'll be damned, that's a weird one. Nothing here that indicates the second engine failed in response to the fuel leak, assuming someone paraphrased the probable cause correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Virginia_Beach_F/A-18_crash

Edited March 23, 2016 by aaron886

[mvsgas]

Just talking about jet engine( low by pass turbo fans), stalls are no big deal. It would cause your RPM to move back, you temperature to go up but should clear. If the stall does not clear, now you have a stagnation, then you have problems.

Edited March 23, 2016 by mvsgas

[EasyEB]

The Virginia Beach crash has to be the single worst example of a second engine bringing the plane back. :)

 

Instead of "stall", let's go with non carastrophic malfunction (i.e one engine failing, but not enough to damage the second one).

[SkateZilla]

The Virginia Beach crash has to be the single worst example of a second engine bringing the plane back. :)

 

Instead of "stall", let's go with non carastrophic malfunction (i.e one engine failing, but not enough to damage the second one).

 

Except he's not bringing it back in that case, he's trying to use partial unstable thrust from left engine to keep the aircraft airborne in the middle of departure climb.

 

Ok, I guess that's fair enough. Conversationally, I usually hear "stall" in reference to an airflow problem or FOD ingestion, and I was under the impression the Oceana mishap was a structural fire, not located in the intake (of all places.) I'll take your word for it until I can find and read the probable cause.

 

Edit: I'll be damned, that's a weird one. Nothing here that indicates the second engine failed in response to the fuel leak, assuming someone paraphrased the probable cause correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Virginia_Beach_F/A-18_crash

 

There's alot of stuff that Wiki Doesn't have updated, the report is public in PDF now.

 

There was also video indicating left engine RPM was fluctuating.

 

however, you're not gonna have a easy take off w/ one Engine on Mil Thrust while trying to climb out of the pattern.

 

Airborne and at Speed/Altitude is easy to maintain w/ one engine and Mil Thrust, but nose up Attitude and losing an engine while trying to climb, w/ no AB Thrust, forget it, it's like trying to get the hornet off the deck with both engines on 33% Throttle, Aint gonna happen.

 

I wouldn't trust wiki, as it's edited by anyone and everyone, at one point someone blamed the Canadian geese overpopulating the area (Catastrophic Bird Strike),.

 

The F-18D in question was F/A-18D-23-M, Lot 10 BuNos 163452, and was close to it's max flight hours.

 

 

The Engine management System in the F-35 is Significantly more sophisticated, something like a random total ingestion of itself is likely not to happen, as the system would detect any form of out of bounds readings and alert pilot before he even taxi'd off his parking spot.

 

But that being said, EMS isnt able to detect birds, NAS Oceana Here is concerned about the growning number of Canadian Geese, who seem to migrate to VA, and then set up shop and never leave.

Edited March 23, 2016 by SkateZilla

[StrongHarm]

[ame]

[/ame]

[Gliptal]

About the F-35 - About AAR

 

I was reading a very nice article about the first transatlantic flight of an F-35 (Italian AL-1, from Cameri to Patuxent River), and there a couple of nice snippets I thought could interest the community, especially in regards on what the pilots feeling is about the F-35 and how modern AAR works (the A-10 and F-35 share the boom aspect at least). Just bare with my localization, since the original excerpts are in italian.

 

About AAR: 3D headsets for the boom operators

 

The [F-35] AL-1 though can only refuel from the "high-speed boom" [as opposed to the basket] and the responsability, in this case, are both of the tanker and the fighter. The RARO (Remote Air Refueling Operator) must move the boom through the wake, dealing along with the cabin crew with any difficulties that may arise when flying in less than ideal conditions.

A successful refueling is especially owed to the two small cameras on the belly of the [italian KC-767A] tanker that, connected to a 3D headset, allow the operator to perceive depth.

 

About the F-35: from an interview with Maj. Pil. Gianmarco Di Loreto

 

One of the strong suits of the F-35 is the so called PVI (Pilot-Vehicle Interface) [...] It could also be stated that there is no need to learn its usage, you just use it[sic. in english] [...] You're not forced to think too much about flying the jet, nor to use each sensor as a single entity. [...] Everything the pilot needs is shown on the helmet's display, from your flight plan to the tactical information and the targeting cameras.

 

I hope you found this couple of snippets interesting, I know it immediately came to my mind the number of single systems in the A-10C and how nice it would be if everything were integrated in an HMD.

[StrongHarm]

One of the strong suits of the F-35 is the so called PVI (Pilot-Vehicle Interface) [...] It could also be stated that there is no need to learn its usage, you just use it

 

I'm a Business Intelligence Architect who did some work with an unnamed DOD company to analyze 'battlefield situational awareness declutter analytics' to include some theoretical work that residually made it into these avionics. Think about it this way; if you've worked for a company that is heavy on spreadsheets, then you move to a company that has a fully functional Business Intelligence Dashboard Suite.. you've experienced exiting a Gen4 cockpit and entering a Gen5 cockpit.

 

The important point is that they've transitioned from providing information that can be analyzed, to providing focused analysis which is a result of computing large amounts of information. Here's an example; you can look at a page of numbers that shows the traffic of the TOR network between countries, but it would take a while to decide where the heaviest flow is. If you look at the chart in the link below, you can almost immediately make a decision. You can further click on countries to 'drill in' to more information. This is the difference between a traditional HUD(think spreadsheet) and PVI(think interactive aggregated indicators).

https://torflow.uncharted.software/

[paulca]

You did that whole post and didn't use the words, "Synergy" or "Leverage" once. Are you sure you work in Business 'intelligence'?

 

Anyway. Your own brain is doing this all the time. The amount of information you receive from all your senses is massive compared to what you are consciously aware of. Really you are aware of about 10% tops of what is actually happening around you. However this is not the same as saying you don't see, hear, feel, smell, taste it etc. You do and the information is processed, it's just that the parts your brain didn't think you needed are left out and the parts your brain thinks you need that aren't there are inserted.

 

For a start the sky is NOT blue. You just think it is, cause it's convenient... and it's not really dark at night, it's just that our eyes have a narrow spectrum.

[StrongHarm]

This, my friend, is the difference between Analyst and Architect... Pedantic and Productive. I prefer the term "Data Intelligence" since the focus isn't always related to business.. but that term is already taken by those that analyze 'page hits' and 'likes' crap.. old terms that didn't evolve with the industry.

 

You did that whole post and didn't use the words, "Synergy" or "Leverage" once. Are you sure you work in Business 'intelligence'?

[SharpeXB]

Oh how it peeves me when people use the title "Architect" when they are not one... :music_whistling:

 

Database Architect

System Application Architect

Operation Systems Architect

Payment Solutions Architect

Mobile Packet Core/Cloud Solutions Sales Architect

Security Architect

 

It sounds so hip and trendy. But Architecture is an actual profession. So that's like saying "Software Attorney" or "Database Physician". It's a professional license so I never understand why it's throw around so commonly. If I referred to myself as such in a state (USA) where I'm not registered I could be sued.

 

Off topic rant over... ;)

 

(I am an Architect)

Edited March 30, 2016 by SharpeXB

[TomOnSteam]

Oh how it peeves me when people use the title "Architect" when they are not one... :music_whistling:

 

Database Architect

System Application Architect

Operation Systems Architect

Payment Solutions Architect

Mobile Packet Core/Cloud Solutions Sales Architect

Security Architect

 

It sounds so hip and trendy. But Architecture is an actual profession. So that's like saying "Software Attorney" or "Database Physician". It's a professional license so I never understand why it's throw around so commonly. If I referred to myself as such in a state (USA) where I'm not registered I could be sued.

 

Off topic rant over... ;)

 

(I am an Architect)

 

Database Designer or Engineer would be a much better term. But you are right, not as hip and trendy :)

 

As for Sales Architect, that just sounds complete stupid. But that's the corporate world for you. Big buzzwords and little useful results. Technology has gotten to a stage where it's as much of a burden as it is a blessing.

[StrongHarm]

This thread may get the award for furthest off topic heheh

 

"Building Architect" was shortened to "Architect" in the days before you could build something virtual. The word is derived from the Latin "Architectus" which means "Director of Works". The Old English word "Architect" is a derivative which means "High Crafter". What I do is not design or development. I assure you that I've 'architected' data universes and semantic layers (and the environments where they reside) that are far more complex than any skyscraper. So.. trendy? Not interested. Descriptive? Yes please.

 

Although I feel justified in calling myself a BI Architect, if you petition Merriam-Webster and have the term changed, I'd be happy to call myself a "BI High Crafter"... :)

[SharpeXB]

Veering the discussion back to gaming...

 

My world of Architecture will probably get to play with the Oculus Rift first :lol:

[StrongHarm]

I think Architectural (building kind) tasks will be dominated by the HoloLens. I was absolutely floored when I saw this video at the Ignite conference and considered the implications. This is on topic, by the way, because the F-35 uses similar 'augmented reality' in the PVI. I'm not surprised. When I was in military aviation in the 90s, I saw tech then that is just now starting to make it to the mainstream. I would imagine that the HoloLens is extremely primitive compared to PVI capability.

 

 

Veering the discussion back to gaming...

 

My world of Architecture will probably get to play with the Oculus Rift first :lol:

Edited March 31, 2016 by StrongHarm

[Rogue Trooper]

Nice to see that the US will be flying the F-35A and F-35B at the Royal international air tattoo this year... they even chucked in an F22A as a sweetener.

I guess that's me booked for the 9th or 10th of july.

[SkateZilla]

I love watching F-18F RIAT Demos on YT, So much better than your normal domestic airshow demos...

[Rogue Trooper]

I do hope the marines get their B into a hover. can't wait to see those slick moving doors and ports opening!

[mvsgas]

ivNgb4BsBLE

[Heli]

 

BAE Systems Information and Electronic Systems Integration Inc., Nashua, New Hampshire, is being awarded a $39,999,960 firm-fixed-price contract for the new manufacture of MJU-68/B flares for the PMA272 Air Expendable Countermeasures program. This effort combines purchases for the government of Israel under the Foreign Military Sales program. Work will be performed in Toon, Tennessee, and is expected to be completed by August 2018.

 

Fiscal 2014 and fiscal 2015 procurement of ammunition (Navy and Marine Corp) funds in the amount of $10,463,323; fiscal 2014 and fiscal 2015 aircraft and ammunition (Air Force) funds in the amount of $21,639,978; and foreign military sales funds in the amount of $7,896,659 will be obligated at the time of award and funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This sole-source requirement received under authority 10 U.S. Code 2304 ©(1). Naval Supply Systems Command Weapon Systems Support, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, is the contracting activity (N00104-16-C-K037).

 

http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/713026

Edited April 5, 2016 by Heli

[HiJack]

Maj. Thomas Hayes, a pilot with the 31st Test and Evaluation Squadron, a tenant unit at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., gives an inside look at what it’s like to be a F-35 Lightning II test pilot. Six operational test and evaluation F-35s and more than 85 Airmen of the 31st TES traveled to Mountain Home AFB, Idaho, to conduct the first simulated deployment test of the F-35A, specifically to execute three key initial operational capability mission sets: suppression of enemy air defenses, close air support and air interdiction. - See more at: http://airman.dodlive.mil/2016/04/the-perfect-storm/#sthash.pvI16ris.dpuf

 

 

[paulca]

Oh how it peeves me when people use the title "Architect" when they are not one... :music_whistling:

 

Sorry dude but:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/architect

 

From my line of work in software I feel it is an apt term, I won't speak for the others. Software designers design (duh) software components. A Software architect designs the bigger picture of how things fit together. Often called a "Solutions Architect". Typically, today, a 'Framework' is choosen and the components 'hang off it' to create the overall structure and form of the project(s).

 

It's a bit like buildings. You give the plans to the engineers, but someone needs to create the plans. In software that is the Solution or Technical architects. Though they are sometimes called other things, the technical ladder progression is usually, Trainee, Engineer, Senior Engineer, Principle engineer various levels of architect.