AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?

[Flyingfish]

I have an i7 9700k, 32gb ram and an RTX 3080. Is it likely that I'll see much of an improvement if I upgrade to a new motherboard and a 5800x3d?

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, Flyingfish said:

I have an i7 9700k, 32gb ram and an RTX 3080. Is it likely that I'll see much of an improvement if I upgrade to a new motherboard and a 5800x3d?

It depends on your rendering resolution and DCS settings.  2.8beta puts extra load on GPU frametimes so GPU typically becomes a bottleneck even more.  So if you play at the settings where GPU frametime are greater than CPU frametimes you won't see much improvement because GPU is the bottleneck.  For single player or simple missions you probably won't see a huge difference, on the other than it should help with MP sessions...unless you use high settings such that the GPU frametimes overwhelm CPU.  For example, if GPU frametimes are in the 20s (ms), having CPU frametimes in the teens or single digit won't help since the final framerate depends on both.

Hence, GPU power will also needed to be factored into the equation.  In any case, any upgrade will help but you need to know what to do and use the correct settings to maximize your setup.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Supmua

[Flyingfish]

9 hours ago, Supmua said:

It depends on your rendering resolution and DCS settings.  2.8beta puts extra load on GPU frametimes so GPU typically becomes a bottleneck even more.  So if you play at the settings where GPU frametime are greater than CPU frametimes you won't see much improvement because GPU is the bottleneck.  For single player or simple missions you probably won't see a huge difference, on the other than it should help with MP sessions...unless you use high settings such that the GPU frametimes overwhelm CPU.  For example, if GPU frametimes are in the 20s (ms), having CPU frametimes in the teens or single digit won't help since the final framerate depends on both.

Hence, GPU power will also needed to be factored into the equation.  In any case, any upgrade will help but you need to know what to do and use the correct settings to maximize your setup.

 

Thanks for the reply. When I use fpsvr it shows that I have higher GPU frame times than CPU, both for DCS and flightsim 2020, but I still get stutters despite the GPU not getting to 100%. Often with DCS I'll get a stutter at exactly the same place on a mission every time I run it despite the GPU being less than 70%. Do you think a better CPU could prevent these stutters or am I completely misinterpreting the data?

[Lange_666]

1 hour ago, Flyingfish said:

Often with DCS I'll get a stutter at exactly the same place on a mission every time I run it

A better CPU will not prevent this.
I have the same, one nice example is Instant Action F-16C Take-Off Caucasus.
If i take-off, continue flying to the end of the runway and then turn right, stay low and then when i'm over the tree line then there is always a short stutter. Always.
I had exactly the same stutter with i7 4770K + GTX780 3GB with 16GB RAM, then later with a 1080Ti 11GB, then again with 32GB RAM instead of the 16GB and again with a 3080Ti 12GB.
I now have an AMD 5800X3D that replaced the i7 4770K, have 64GB RAM and FPS capped at 60 or not capped 120+, still the same stutter at exactly the same place.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Lange_666

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, Flyingfish said:

Thanks for the reply. When I use fpsvr it shows that I have higher GPU frame times than CPU, both for DCS and flightsim 2020, but I still get stutters despite the GPU not getting to 100%. Often with DCS I'll get a stutter at exactly the same place on a mission every time I run it despite the GPU being less than 70%. Do you think a better CPU could prevent these stutters or am I completely misinterpreting the data?

Use the CPU and GPU frametime graphs and see what is causing the spike when you get the stuttering at that spot.  Percent use number won’t help you fine tune your system. 
Stuttering typically occurs when framerate dips (or frametime spikes) and based on the frametime graphs you can identify the culprit (CPU, GPU, or both).  Sometimes the fix can be as easy as locking framerate to half of the headset’s refresh rate (provided that your overall frametimes are low enough), or just by reducing some graphic settings.

Based on the graphs you can decide what will help you more by improving CPU or GPU frametimes via upgrade.  But this only applies to that particular spot you mentioned. While GPU FT is typically hit harder, there are also instances that CPU FT can take a big hit especially when numerous objects are being rendered (crowded airport, carrier, multiplayer games with lots of players, lots of missiles/bombs being released, etc.). 

[Dogmanbird]

I haven't seen much comparing 5900x with 5800x3d. Has anyone seen a VR comparison?

[Hoirtel]

54 minutes ago, Dogmanbird said:

I haven't seen much comparing 5900x with 5800x3d. Has anyone seen a VR comparison?

Take the time to read the thread. Its all here.

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Dogmanbird said:

I haven't seen much comparing 5900x with 5800x3d. Has anyone seen a VR comparison?

I made a comparison like this. CPU frametimes were 20-25% better with the X3D depending on the scene. How much this translates to better GPU frametimes depends on how bottlenecked you are. In my case I saw a slight improvement around 5% with my 3080.

As stated before. For VR the X3D is the better choice for sure.

[Dogmanbird]

Thanks guys, actually have read right through it. For some reason I thought the 5900x had a higher boost than the 5950x and wondered if that made it closer to the the 5800x3d (cache aside), but I must have had a brain fart and it may have been the 3900x and 3950x. I've had several pc's to build over the last 2 years using x3900 to x5950x. Most were needed for video editing and audio/daws so never made use of the 5800x3d

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

How are the prices going where everyone is? In Aus it's about $650 to $750 for a non grey market one. Here it's pretty much this for non grey market ($US to $AUD conversion) + 33% + delivery for a lot of components.

[edmuss]

350 queen bux here currently which equates to about 615 kangaroo pounds, that's including vat@20% though

edit: I suppose they should be king bux now shouldn't they?

Edited November 16, 2022 by edmuss

[Sandman1330]

Yeah in Canada they are pretty much sold out across the board from major retailers. Just resellers have them now, at inflated prices.

[M1Combat]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:33 AM, Flyingfish said:

Thanks for the reply. When I use fpsvr it shows that I have higher GPU frame times than CPU, both for DCS and flightsim 2020, but I still get stutters despite the GPU not getting to 100%. Often with DCS I'll get a stutter at exactly the same place on a mission every time I run it despite the GPU being less than 70%. Do you think a better CPU could prevent these stutters or am I completely misinterpreting the data?

I would try to eliminate texture loading real quick first.  If you know that the stutter occurs at "exactly" the same place etc from takeoff I'd adjust the pre-load and the ground textures in turn and see if it changes.  What kind of drive is DCS on?  Windows?

[Flyingfish]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:42 PM, M1Combat said:

I would try to eliminate texture loading real quick first.  If you know that the stutter occurs at "exactly" the same place etc from takeoff I'd adjust the pre-load and the ground textures in turn and see if it changes.  What kind of drive is DCS on?  Windows?

Hi,

 

DCS is on a m.2 NVMe drive and it's windows 10

I've tried using FPSvr and when there's a stutter it usually shows a spike for both GPU and CPU. I'd love it if buying a 5800x3d would solve this but I'm thinking it probably won't

[M1Combat]

I would try the adjustment.  I suspect when loading textures it will force both the CPU and GPU frame to wait for the textures.  I don't know if it's the solution but it's low hanging fruit regarding time investment.  Like almost quicker than these two extra messages :).

Just one more thing to be sure is off the list.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by M1Combat

[seven10]

I jumped up to a 5800X3D from a 5800X and in 2.8 there's no consistent noticeable improvement in smoothness, especially when looking side to side and flying low in a helo or something like the A-10 or Harrier. The OpenXR tools do say I'm hitting 58-65fps+ though even during those times, it just feels like little micro stutters though. Guess I'll be waiting to upgrade the GPU again.

[nikoel]

3 hours ago, seven10 said:

I jumped up to a 5800X3D from a 5800X and in 2.8 there's no consistent noticeable improvement in smoothness, especially when looking side to side and flying low in a helo or something like the A-10 or Harrier. The OpenXR tools do say I'm hitting 58-65fps+ though even during those times, it just feels like little micro stutters though. Guess I'll be waiting to upgrade the GPU again.

You have broken the threshold of "early frames" and now inside dropped frame territory. You can either A) increase settings to get back as close to 45FPS as possible or B) Enable Reprojection or C) Enable FPS lock inside the toolkit 

[Dogmanbird]

Just popped in a 5800x3d in place of the 5900x. Only had an hour to experiment so far but as expected, DCS is benefitting from it more than MSFS from what I can see. 

What's interesting is in MSFS, the CPU surface temp is reaching nearly 80 degrees, where DCS barely hits 65 degrees. I wasn't expecting such a difference in temps.

[seven10]

12 hours ago, nikoel said:

You have broken the threshold of "early frames" and now inside dropped frame territory. You can either A) increase settings to get back as close to 45FPS as possible or B) Enable Reprojection or C) Enable FPS lock inside the toolkit 

Interesting, I never thought about that. So essentially start boosting settings until I see the uncapped frame rate average around 45? I tried reprojection and it looks terrible to me, I kept getting all that bubbling artifacting and OpenXR's FPS counter was saying I was never reaching above 38fps.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

The builder assembling my new computer informs me that due to delay of getting the 5800X3D, I shall be getting mine in early December. I dunno if the CPU is too popular or the stock is too low.

[edmuss]

2 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

The builder assembling my new computer informs me that due to delay of getting the 5800X3D, I shall be getting mine in early December. I dunno if the CPU is too popular or the stock is too low.

Freely available from scan....

But then he'll not get his profit margin on the CPU.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

May be my PC builder CyberPowerPC is more popular these days than Scan UK...

[skypickle]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:23 AM, Dogmanbird said:

Just popped in a 5800x3d in place of the 5900x. Only had an hour to experiment so far but as expected, DCS is benefitting from it more than MSFS from what I can see. 

What's interesting is in MSFS, the CPU surface temp is reaching nearly 80 degrees, where DCS barely hits 65 degrees. I wasn't expecting such a difference in temps.

DCS is benefitting?! great news. Can you pull up the in game dcs performance monitor (ctrl-pause) and tell me your fps and frametimes? Or if you never did that before, how do you know how much you benefitted? Can you run an instant mission in caucasus and post results?

[Dogmanbird]

It was fairly easy to see just from flying. I only use VR. Maintaining the game settings I had, on the Marianas map and looking out the side windows while in the huey I would get consistent stutter, but not when looking forward. The new cpu is smooth out the side windows and forward. I can see it in other previously stuttery areas as well. Safe to say it's at least enough of an improvement to keep it above the reprojection threshold. Possibly not a big enough improvement to sacrifice the additional cores if using premiere, after FX, cubase and protools etc.

[edmuss]

On 11/19/2022 at 10:23 AM, Dogmanbird said:

Just popped in a 5800x3d in place of the 5900x. Only had an hour to experiment so far but as expected, DCS is benefitting from it more than MSFS from what I can see. 

What's interesting is in MSFS, the CPU surface temp is reaching nearly 80 degrees, where DCS barely hits 65 degrees. I wasn't expecting such a difference in temps.

MSFS is simply using more cores so it will generate more heat.
Use PBO2 Tuner to undervolt the cpu and the temps should drop significantly. Mine sits at 55°C or there about in DCS and after a 10 minute cinebench R23 run it gets up to 75°, that is with all 8 cores pegged at 4.45Ghz @ 100% load.  Using an old thermalright truespirit 140 that I made an AM4 bracket for.