Any Updates on Naval Assets?

[Mike Force Team]

@BIGNEWY In the forum posts, we have hinted, suggested, and stated that the naval assets need updating. ED does a great job with the jets and choppers but seems to lack in updating the naval surface ships and submarines.  As customers, what can we do to encourage ED to update the naval assets? 

MFT

[upyr1]

Needless to say I'd like some more assets and improvements to the ones we have. 

[Callsign112]

+1 me2

[FlankerKiller]

Sure, the current rate is about one new ship every five years or so. 

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

Sure, the current rate is about one new ship every five years or so. 

This is one the reasons I say Eagle needs to do some ship modules, it might open up a flood of new ships 

[Callsign112]

Yeah and the most upsetting part about all of this for me is all the amazing mods I am locking myself out from using... Do you see where this is going?

Is there anyway members of the super talented modding community here would consider having their work included as official content, especially any WWII ships?

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

Sure, the current rate is about one new ship every five years or so. 

 

This one appeared on 2020:

 

 

1 hour ago, Callsign112 said:

Yeah and the most upsetting part about all of this for me is all the amazing mods I am locking myself out from using...

 

Why do you lock out of them? ... you are missing on a lot, like for example:

 

 

 

 

 

You just need a good Mod manager, so as to enable them only when needed.

[Callsign112]

Oh I know don't remind me. I might have to revisit the issue, but for the time being I'm sticking with the story that my friends don't like mod managers so I can't use it

No but seriously, I don't run the Beta versions when they are available because of the grief it can cause, and mods seem to be even worse for me. I would really love to, but just found its not worth it, even if the models are.

Would love to see any of those make it into the game.

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

This one appeared on 2020:

 

 

 

Why do you lock out of them? ... you are missing on a lot, like for example:

 

 

 

 

 

You just need a good Mod manager, so as to enable them only when needed.

Also a good mod manager would keep them up to date. 

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Also a good mod manager would keep them up to date. 

 

The Mods developers are the ones that can update their Mods to keep current with DCS, the Mod Manager is only used to install/uninstall the Mods.

[upyr1]

6 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

The Mods developers are the ones that can update their Mods to keep current with DCS, the Mod Manager is only used to install/uninstall the Mods.

A mod manager could check a url to see if files changed. Development would beyond the scope of any ai.

[Mike Force Team]

I saw the various positions being advertised in the forum with ED.  For the qualified people that have the needed technical skills, they are likely to contribute to ED's planes, choppers, and more.  I hope some of the positions might be used to update the naval surface ships and submarines.

MFT

[Rudel_chw]

24 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

A mod manager could check a url to see if files changed. Development would beyond the scope of any ai.

 

Ahh, ok, sorry I misunderstood. None of the Mod Managers that I have used seem to have such a feature.

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Ahh, ok, sorry I misunderstood. None of the Mod Managers that I have used seem to have such a feature.

I think the nexus mod manager does. Though it limits you to mods on their server. Though it wouldn't be to hard to have a url.text file to point the manager to the directory. Which I think would be a good feature for mod manager 

[upyr1]

7 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

Oh I know don't remind me. I might have to revisit the issue, but for the time being I'm sticking with the story that my friends don't like mod managers so I can't use it

No but seriously, I don't run the Beta versions when they are available because of the grief it can cause, and mods seem to be even worse for me. I would really love to, but just found its not worth it, even if the models are.

Would love to see any of those make it into the game.

While I do run mods I consider it a win when a mod can be replaced with an official asset. 

[Rudel_chw]

10 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

While I do run mods I consider it a win when a mod can be replaced with an official asset. 

I’m happy to use Mods, as I don't do MP and so just have to please myself and no one else 

 

 

[Callsign112]

19 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

While I do run mods I consider it a win when a mod can be replaced with an official asset. 

Yeah I really do like what the mod community does, but maybe one day...

7 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I’m happy to use Mods, as I don't do MP and so just have to please myself and no one else 

 

 

I think you have the system nailed down pretty good Rudel, judging by the screenshots your obviously getting a lot of enjoyment out of DCS. But I can also tell that you are the computer tinkering type, which I'm not.

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

I’m happy to use Mods, as I don't do MP and so just have to please myself and no one else 

 

 

I don't do multiplayer either its just that official assets don't break as often. Right now I am tinkering with the Iowa mod to see if I can get a 1990s refit going. Step one is figuring out the scramjet shells. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by upyr1

[Kang]

Returning to the original topic for a minute:

It seems to be a little better than 'one ship every five years', depending on how you look at it, but still. In the wake of the releases of Hornet and Supercarrier, ED announced the 'year of naval focus in DCS'. That year (or years if you will) have definitely come and gone, seeing how we are now in the 'year of close combat helicopter focus', so lets take stock:

• The Supercarrier itself, which was a paid module, so you might argue it wasn't exactly part of the core game changes, but that's for everyone to decide.
• The Arleigh Burke destroyer, same reasoning as it was part of the Supercarrier module.
• The La Combattante corvette
• The Handy Wind bulk freighter
• The Seawise Giant tanker

I don't want to be ungrateful, because these new cargo ships are definitely an important asset and were direly needed, but seeing how apart from a new model pretty much a copy-paste job of the existing cargo ships (top speed, turning radius and health points are the only variables here), the only 'core game naval asset' has been one corvette.

Maybe I'm just mistaken and a few more things are just still in the pipeline. I'd certainly hope so.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Kang said:

the only 'core game naval asset' has been one corvette

plus the Kuznetsov 2017 (yeah, a paid one), and the 4-5 ships added by the WW2 assets pack  … also, not by ED, but some third parties have added ships to the game, that can be used for free, like the Tarawa by Razbam, the Forrestal by Heatblur and the Chinese warships by Deka.

[Mike Force Team]

The other day, I saw DCS posted job vacancy positions with their company. It looks like the company is seeking qualified candidates to create new planes and jets for them. Perhaps DCS might use the newly hired people to work on naval assets. This is my speculation, of course.

MFT

[Northstar98]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:44 AM, Kang said:

• The Supercarrier itself, which was a paid module, so you might argue it wasn't exactly part of the core game changes, but that's for everyone to decide.

Even though it is paid, it has a few issues, even without going into fidelity:

• The primary air-search RADARs (AN/SPS-48E NTU and AN/SPS-49(V)5 NTU) aren't present - the only RADARs present is a generic surface-search RADAR, and the Mk 95 illuminators, which are treated as having search capability.
• It fires the wrong Sea Sparrow for the era they're modelled on (mid to late 2000s) should be RIM-7P instead of RIM-7M.

On 4/20/2022 at 8:44 AM, Kang said:

• The Arleigh Burke destroyer, same reasoning as it was part of the Supercarrier module.

Which has its own set of issues:

• Frankenstein's monster of numerous fits of Flt. IIA ships - it has the liveries and funnel designs of late Flt. IIAs but has 2 Phalanx CIWS systems (only found on the first 5 Flt. IIA ships)
• The AN/SPY-1D(V) is copied straight off of the AN/MPQ-53 STR from the Patriot PAC-2 (also applies to the Oliver Hazard Perry's Mk 92 CAS and the Ticonderoga's AN/SPY-1A).
• Missing a fair amount of weapons (I'll ignore ASW and ABM weapons as DCS doesn't really support them):
  • RGM-109D TLAM-D Block III [166× BLU-97/B CEM]
  • RGM-109E Tomahawk Block IV (Tactical Tomahawk)
  • RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IV/RIM-174A ERAM (SM-6 Block IA)
  • RIM-162A ESSM

On 4/20/2022 at 8:44 AM, Kang said:

• The La Combattante corvette

Which is actually a 90s - v. early 2000s German Type 148 Tiger-class.

Nearly a year on and it still fires the wrong missile (should fire the MM.38 Exocet Block I).

It also only has a surface-search RADAR modelled, which in turn is copied straight off of the Pr. 1241.1M 'Molniya' [Tarantul III], the real thing's TRS 3050 Triton G RADAR is capable of air and surface-search. The fire-control RADAR (TRS 3201 Castor II) also isn't present, neither are the 2 'Panda' optical directors.

On 4/20/2022 at 8:44 AM, Kang said:

• The Handy Wind bulk freighter
• The Seawise Giant tanker

I don't want to be ungrateful, because these new cargo ships are definitely an important asset and were direly needed, but seeing how apart from a new model pretty much a copy-paste job of the existing cargo ships (top speed, turning radius and health points are the only variables here)

Agreed.

Though personally, I wish they would've picked a generic class of ships, rather than 2 unique ships, but meh, whatever.

On 4/20/2022 at 8:44 AM, Kang said:

Maybe I'm just mistaken and a few more things are just still in the pipeline. I'd certainly hope so.

Haven't seen anything though, in general the naval environment is the least fleshed out aspect of DCS, by quite a large margin, in just about every aspect.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Northstar98

[Northstar98]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:08 AM, Rudel_chw said:

plus the Kuznetsov 2017 (yeah, a paid one)

Meh, that was essentially a copy and paste of the existing Kuznetsov with a new 3D model (alongside damage zones).

Though there's still a few things wrong with the model, such as RADARs that undergo a metamorphosis as they turn and some issues with the normals.

There's also things like Kortik CIWS, which leaves a fair amount to be desired:

Here's what the real thing looks like (actually a Kortik-M, which externally adds muzzle clamps and another optic)

And here's what it looks like on the new Kuznetsov:

• In general v. low resolution (even compared to older, free assets)
• Antennae are the wrong shape (hell, the whole 'head' is largely the wrong shape)
• What is going on with the optics? It honestly looks unrecogniseable, and frankly awful.
• What is going on with the muzzle textures? Out of all the AO-18 barrels these are the worst by significant margin - we're basically at HL1 quality here.

The AK-630s are also inferior compared to what you'd find on existing free assets.

On 4/20/2022 at 10:08 AM, Rudel_chw said:

4-5 ships added by the WW2 assets pack

There's an LST Mk. II with no LST capability; an attack transport, with no transportation capability, a FAC that works fairly well (apart from the torpedoes are bugged).

There's also a Type VIIC/41 U-boat (not a U-flak), which sounds identical regardless of whether its surfaced or submerged, and submarine dynamics are still very basic. There's a whole host of issues plaguing submarines and submarine warfare, which include all of the issues ASuW currently has, plus some extras.

On 4/20/2022 at 10:08 AM, Rudel_chw said:

 … also, not by ED, but some third parties have added ships to the game, that can be used for free, like the Tarawa by Razbam, the Forrestal by Heatblur and the Chinese warships by Deka.

Tarawa's pretty decent, though doesn't have its well deck modelled (though when it first came out it did).

Forrestal is fantastic save for some very minor graphical issues.

Both however suffer from missing RADARs (again AN/SPS-48 and -49 are not present).

 

The Chinese asset pack however leave something to be desired; quality is somewhat of a mixed bag; some elements are good, some are fairly average and some leave a fair amount to be desired. The Type 071 Amphibious Transport Dock (Yuzhao LPD) is definitely the worst offender (though does have a well deck), and the Type 093 submarine [Shang SSN] being the best (though does have a few missing details and animations, compared to say, the Pr. 636 [Improved Kilo SSK].

Edited April 22, 2022 by Northstar98

[upyr1]

What naval assets are you the most interested in seeing in DCS?

My list so far.

late cold war / modern 

1980s Iowas  

Submarines Some attack and cruise missile submarines would be nice. 

Russian destroyers

Kidd and Spruance class destroyers and 1980s cruisers.

Mid Cold war- (Vietnam war era)

USS New Jersey

Angled deck Essex-class carriers 

come to think any thing from this era would be great.

WWII and early cold war

The Normandy invasion fleet would top my list here, though Bismark-class battleships would be nice for a what if mission. Followed by the order of battle for the Philipine Sea 

 

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

There's an LST Mk. II with no LST capability, an attack transport, with no transportation capability, a FAC that works fairly well (apart from the torpedoes are bugged).

There's also a Type VIIC/41 U-boat (not a U-flak), which sounds identical regardless of whether its surfaced or submerged, and submarine dynamics are still very basic. There's a whole host of issues plaguing submarines and submarine warfare, which include all of the issues ASuW currently has, plus some extras.

Amphibious and Submarine warfare are two areas Eagle Needs to work on. I think they out of the two areas they need to focus on amphibious warfare the most. We have two Normandy maps, so recreating the largest amphibious assault in history should be a thing. Also I think supporting a landing would be a great mission in the Hornet and Harrier. As well as the upcoming A-6 module and any Naval F-4 module.