Will/Did the F-14 have the AIM-7P?

[roobarbjapan]

As the title, this is one for the guys more knowledgeable than myself. Did the F-14 ever fly with the AIM-7P and if so will we get it along with the hornet in the update?

Edited June 3, 2022 by roobarbjapan

[near_blind]

Seems like it could to me. Whether or not we'll get it this patch? no clue. 

[roobarbjapan]

4 minutes ago, near_blind said:

Seems like it could to me. Whether or not we'll get it this patch? no clue. 

I came across this same document too but was hoping for something a little more concrete. Thank you though

[IronMike]

Yes, it did carry it, and yes, it will get the aim7P in DCS, but not with this patch but the subsequent one. It was a bit too tight for us to implement it in time.

[Q3ark]

What improvement does the AIM-7P have over the M? 

[Comstedt86]

7 minutes ago, Q3ark said:

What improvement does the AIM-7P have over the M? 

IRL improved electronics, improved guidance via link & inertial iirc and a new radar fuze. 

All in all improvement vs small and low targets. 

 

How this translates to DCS? Most likely copy paste 7M.

[DSplayer]

1 hour ago, Comstedt86 said:

IRL improved electronics, improved guidance via link & inertial iirc and a new radar fuze. 

All in all improvement vs small and low targets. 

 

How this translates to DCS? Most likely copy paste 7M.

Maybe that new improved guidance via datalink and INS could allow for you to lose lock and then pick it back up and the Sparrow would keep tracking without missing a beat.

[Dragon1-1]

That's already possible with FLOOD mode, and should be possible with any Fox 1, as long as the target is within the seeker limits by the time it's reacquired. They home on reflected radar energy, and will go after any reflection they see (indeed, the Shrike was just a Sparrow tuned to home on SAM radars instead of reflections from fighter ones). That said, it might fly a more efficient trajectory, similar to the AMRAAM. But beyond that, the improvements are not something a pilot would normally notice, and aren't a massive upgrade anyway. They're certainly not better enough to upgrade the remaining stock of 7Ms, instead they're replacing the older version as it's being depleted.

[draconus]

14 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They home on reflected radar energy, and will go after any reflection they see...

Well, not any, limited to set channel and frequency afaik.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, obviously they only go after the energy they're tuned to, which is typically the launch platform's radar. Should have perhaps qualified they home on any ownship radar energy they see reflected. Otherwise they wouldn't be very usable.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[roobarbjapan]

7 hours ago, IronMike said:

Yes, it did carry it, and yes, it will get the aim7P in DCS, but not with this patch but the subsequent one. It was a bit too tight for us to implement it in time.

Many thanks for the reply and news

[Zaphael]

Would it be launched with the Persian cats? I recall they were sold the AIM-7Ps.

[KlarSnow]

Iran was only ever sold Aim-7E's, The AIM-7P was a early to mid 90's upgrade. The Iranian revolution occured 15 years before it was ever in service and Iran never even recieved AIM-7F's........

[Zaphael]

You're right, I got confused with the models. I wonder then would the 7E's be available when the Iranian Tomcats are released then? 

[KlarSnow]

7E's are already in game. I'm not entirely sure why Heatblur hasn't implemented it, and I have no idea what differentiates it from the AIM-7F in game currently. There were several variants of the AIM-7E, and the Tomcat was only compatible with the AIM-7E-4, the AIM-7E and AIM-7E-2 and AIM-7E-3 were Phantom only. The Iranian Sparrows were either AIM-7E-2's or AIM-7E-3's for their Phantoms IIRC. Either way they weren't originally compatible with the F-14, not that they couldn't have eventually modified them or the AWG-9 to support them.

 

Iranian Tomcats originally were only compatible with AIM-54A's and whatever variant of sidewinder the Iranian's received. Anything else is a later modification.

Edited June 4, 2022 by KlarSnow

[Dragon1-1]

Can't the F-14 carry the AIM-7E already? I'm pretty sure I saw it in the loadout options, but it's been a while.

[TLTeo]

Nop, currently it carries the F, M and MH.

[9thHunt]

On 6/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Can't the F-14 carry the AIM-7E already? I'm pretty sure I saw it in the loadout options, but it's been a while.

They used -7Es during some of the early flight tests, because they were cheaper then the -7Fs which were brand new at the time.  Prototype #6 was using -7Es during the inverted drop test that led to its crash.

[Dragon1-1]

There was a -7E meant specifically for the Tomcat's radar, so I think it was used operationally. I think those used in early tests were still the version for the Phantom (as it was just separation, they wouldn't need to guide).

[DSplayer]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:33 AM, 9thHunt said:

They used -7Es during some of the early flight tests, because they were cheaper then the -7Fs which were brand new at the time.  Prototype #6 was using -7Es during the inverted drop test that led to its crash.

On 6/30/2022 at 10:36 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

There was a -7E meant specifically for the Tomcat's radar, so I think it was used operationally. I think those used in early tests were still the version for the Phantom (as it was just separation, they wouldn't need to guide).

AIM-7Es (specifically AIM-7E-4) were definitely in service with the F-14 and coexisted with the AIM-7F. Currently the F-14 does have the lines of codes in its Weapons.lua that include the options to mount the AIM-7E but the actual loadouts lua doesn't. Its sorta understandable considering the F-14s that we have now are later variants that wouldn't have used the AIM-7E-4s.

 

Here's a picture of an F-14A mounting an AIM-7E, AIM-9D/G/Hs, and an AIM-54A
 

Spoiler

 

[SgtPappy]

On 6/4/2022 at 8:02 AM, KlarSnow said:

7E's are already in game. I'm not entirely sure why Heatblur hasn't implemented it, and I have no idea what differentiates it from the AIM-7F in game currently. There were several variants of the AIM-7E, and the Tomcat was only compatible with the AIM-7E-4, the AIM-7E and AIM-7E-2 and AIM-7E-3 were Phantom only. The Iranian Sparrows were either AIM-7E-2's or AIM-7E-3's for their Phantoms IIRC. Either way they weren't originally compatible with the F-14, not that they couldn't have eventually modified them or the AWG-9 to support them.

 

Iranian Tomcats originally were only compatible with AIM-54A's and whatever variant of sidewinder the Iranian's received. Anything else is a later modification.

 

The AIM-7E series only have a 2.9 sec burn boost phase. The sustainer phase was first added on top of the boost motor with the AIM-7F, thus the AIM-7F has a significant range advantage over the AIM-7E.

[KlarSnow]

26 minutes ago, SgtPappy said:

The AIM-7E series only have a 2.9 sec burn boost phase. The sustainer phase was first added on top of the boost motor with the AIM-7F, thus the AIM-7F has a significant range advantage over the AIM-7E.

I'm aware of the differences between the missiles in real life, I'm specifically talking about in game. Does the AIM-7E have the worse motor? Or is it just an AIM-7F renamed with worse CCM rejection values.

[SgtPappy]

9 hours ago, KlarSnow said:

I'm aware of the differences between the missiles in real life, I'm specifically talking about in game. Does the AIM-7E have the worse motor? Or is it just an AIM-7F renamed with worse CCM rejection values.

I am talking about just the game. In both the game and real life, both have the boost motor but only the AIM-7F and later variants have the sustain motor which lasts I think for 8 seconds and ignites immediately after the 2.9 second boost phase.

I'm not sure about the CCM values, but the burn time isn't something that would just be a difference in real life.

[CarbonFox]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:46 AM, Comstedt86 said:

IRL improved electronics, improved guidance via link & inertial iirc and a new radar fuze. 

All in all improvement vs small and low targets. 

 

How this translates to DCS? Most likely copy paste 7M.

From what ED said, the AIM-7P only has a slightly larger warhead so it's basically a copy paste of the 7MH I assume performance wise. I do hope the Sparrow gets some attention as the 7M/MH seems to underperform compared to the RL counterpart as far as range.

[DSplayer]

8 hours ago, CarbonFox said:

From what ED said, the AIM-7P only has a slightly larger warhead so it's basically a copy paste of the 7MH I assume performance wise. I do hope the Sparrow gets some attention as the 7M/MH seems to underperform compared to the RL counterpart as far as range.

The 7P has that datalink guidance which allows for it to guide when the seeker itself doesn’t see the target. The warhead itself however is the same as all the other AIM-7s.