Reticuli Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Well a lot also depends on if your talking flight sim or combat sim. Theres gonna be some compromise. Without a doubt DCS BS is the supreme rotary wing sim on the market, by far. Have you ever flown X-Plane 8 utilizing manual trim, autopilot, and auto-trimming of pitch loads? I have like a dozen modded helos for it that fly stunningly. Even the Werewolf flies similarly to the DCS version, perhaps even better, though it does not have fixed ground trim, use a combined trim-wingsleveling system (fine by me), or model certain types of helo stalls. Some of the stalls can be worked in, like low rpm & retreating blade, if you tweak the aircraft Vspecs with planemaker enough and I'm not sure if 9 has vortex rings. Blackshark's rings modeling is a bit weird, though. Too much cyclic authority when they hit, which also seems to be at too high a speed, and lateral motion does not remedy them as much as it should...considering you still have so much cyclic authority and ability to sideslip, which you shouldn't until you lower collective at least a little. The correct procedure, according to the US FAA, should be to drop collective sufficient to regain some cyclic authority, and use cyclic to get out of it before crashing. EECH's sucked, being closer to what you should do when you have low rpm stall (though your rpms were fine), though it also didn't model low rpm stall. Weird. But at least something is in there on rings in both sims, right? Blackshark is the first time I know of anyone's ever gotten the need to reduce collective at all right. So that's a plus. Edited January 2, 2009 by Reticuli X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc http://library.avsim.net/register.php X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you're going to make a combat flight sim that models such scenarios, it's absolutely appropriate to include them. You don't think if we went to war with Iran or Korea and airborne threats were an issue for helos they wouldn't be equiped with them? I will put it simply. DCS is going to model an aircraft based on what was actually in service, not what is in the marketing brochure. No AH-64A's in service had (and still don't have) the ability to carry air to air missiles. Period. If we had gone to war with Russia or N. Korea with the AH-64A, they would have gone in without air to air missiles. Consequently, this also means that the AH-64A should not have the ability to carry IR flares, only chaff, since no AH-64A's in service ever carried them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino4 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 @ Reticuli: Apaches didn't carry them in the gulf war, and we were going up against modern soviet equipment then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG27_Arklight Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) I will put it simply. DCS is going to model an aircraft based on what was actually in service, not what is in the marketing brochure. No AH-64A's in service had (and still don't have) the ability to carry air to air missiles. Period. If we had gone to war with Russia or N. Korea with the AH-64A, they would have gone in without air to air missiles. Consequently, this also means that the AH-64A should not have the ability to carry IR flares, only chaff, since no AH-64A's in service ever carried them. I take it that this is a AH-64D model, correct? Edited January 2, 2009 by JG27_Arklight Ark ------------------ Windows 10 Pro x64 9900K @ 5ghz Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB CAS 14 EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Ultra XC2 256gb Samsung 869 Pro (Boot Drive) 1TB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus Seasoninc 1000w Titanium Ultra PSU 34" ASUS PG348 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I can't wait to see the 64a personally. I'm wondering if we will be able to jump to the gunner and back to the pilot, and what kind of flight control we'll have at the gunner. E8600 Asus P5E Radeon 4870x2 Corsair 4gb Velociraptor 300gb Neopower 650 NZXT Tempest Vista64 Samsung 30" 2560x1600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reticuli Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 @ Reticuli: Apaches didn't carry them in the gulf war, and we were going up against modern soviet equipment then. Iraq was a generation behind Russia and woefully under-equipped with what they had. Since the Apache's beginning there have been provisions for putting stingers on (just two little boxes/modules and the missiles) and if they actually were operating in a battlespace where enemy helos had Vikhrs (cudely capable of AA hits) and the US did not have air superiority, I don't think anyone on this forum, actual Army aviator or not, can say they wouldn't be equiped with them. If you want to get really geeky and technical about all this stuff, there's just about zero chance Russian aviation would still be in the air even after a day with the enormous edge the US has in targeting sensors, automation, and early warning systems. But if you want to get as strict as you're all trying to be, then a big chunk of Flaming Cliffs never should have been allowed. You see, you're always making some kind of choices with this stuff. X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc http://library.avsim.net/register.php X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAT_101st Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I take it that this is a AH-64D model, correct? Neg that is AH-64a,b,c not D the D has the LongBow rdr system mounted on top of the mast. Home built PC Win 10 Pro 64bit, MB ASUS Z170 WS, 6700K, EVGA 1080Ti Hybrid, 32GB DDR4 3200, Thermaltake 120x360 RAD, Custom built A-10C sim pit, TM WARTHOG HOTAS, Cougar MFD's, 3D printed UFC and Saitek rudders. HTC VIVE VR. https://digitalcombatmercenaries.enjin.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkr Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) you douched your self see... lol Edited January 3, 2009 by thinkr Modded CapLoz HeliosV2.1_1280x1024.zip 2x 1080p 22"Monitors, Saitek X52, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, Trackir5, Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel Q9550 @3.8Ghz, EP45-UD3L, 8GB Ram, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB, 2x 500GB Velociraptor Flaming Cliffs 3 DCS:A10C,KA-50, Huey, Mi-8, WWII Euro 40+ Supporter, Mig21 Falcon 4 BMS IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 Take on Helicopters Arma 2 AO + PMC + BF All Addons Series Arma 3 EECH & EEAH Medivac & Search and Rescue 4 Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acedy Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Neg that is AH-64a,b,c not D the D has the LongBow rdr system mounted on top of the mast. Not necessarily. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *** SERVMAN SERVER MANAGEMENT MOD V2 FOR DCS:BS V1.0.1 *** *** VERSION FOR FC2 *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enema Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I've been watching this release for quite a while now, as we all know there hasn't been anything great in the way of Helo sims since LB2 as far as realism and complexity go. I can happily report though that this simulation blows LB2 out of the water in terms of complexity, as nearly every system and subsystem is carefully modelled which could be overwhelming to some, or a dream come true to those like myself who appreciate the attention to detail this dev team has presented to us. This is truly light years ahead of LB2, and brother, it's been a long time coming!! It takes a big man to cry, and a far larger man to laugh at him :smilewink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Iraq was a generation behind Russia and woefully under-equipped with what they had. Since the Apache's beginning there have been provisions for putting stingers on (just two little boxes/modules and the missiles) and if they actually were operating in a battlespace where enemy helos had Vikhrs (cudely capable of AA hits) and the US did not have air superiority, I don't think anyone on this forum, actual Army aviator or not, can say they wouldn't be equiped with them. You were just told by an Army aviator that they wouldn't be. The same was told by an Army aviator on the Russian forums for the Russian helis. DCS is in the business of REALISTIC simulation, not speculation simulation. If you want to get really geeky and technical about all this stuff, there's just about zero chance Russian aviation would still be in the air even after a day with the enormous edge the US has in targeting sensors, automation, and early warning systems. But if you want to get as strict as you're all trying to be, then a big chunk of Flaming Cliffs never should have been allowed. You see, you're always making some kind of choices with this stuff. If you want to get really geeky and technical, I have news for you; while the f-15 was equipped with a radar that could easily bring a heli down, other aircraft were not. Further, Russia had large numbers of cheap fighters, and massive ECM - as well as a written and documented plan to open the war by tac-nuking NATO C3. It would have been a huge mess. Lastly, DCS is not Flaming Cliffs. Flaming Cliffs was NOT in the business of realistic modeling. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Groove Posted January 2, 2009 ED Team Share Posted January 2, 2009 Reticuli, don't watch THAT much Military Channel :) Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarrion Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 No amount of accuracy in the modelling of minor subsystems and loadouts can make up for the fact that you can fly through trees unscathed. :smartass: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Don't fly through the trees ;) No amount of accuracy in the modelling of minor subsystems and loadouts can make up for the fact that you can fly through trees unscathed. :smartass: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) I take it that this is a AH-64D model, correct? You're a smart guy, what unit is that aircraft serving with? I'll give you a hint, it's not from any service unit, it's a development aircraft performing tests. No A-model Apache in the U.S. Army from an operational unit ever had the ability to use air to air missiles. Since the Apache's beginning there have been provisions for putting stingers on (just two little boxes/modules and the missiles) No A-model in U.S. Army service (excluding development test beds) had this provision. I'm not making this stuff up, and I'm not guessing. This is fact. During Desert Shield/Desert Storm, there WAS a concern about our helicopters mixing it up with Iraqi aircraft. So we DID mount Stingers on our helicopters (ATAS, Air To Air Stinger)...but they were mounted on our Kiowas, not on our Apaches. Edited January 2, 2009 by AlphaOneSix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkr Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 No amount of accuracy in the modelling of minor subsystems and loadouts can make up for the fact that you can fly through trees unscathed. :smartass: Are you serious? thats disappointing and laughable lol... at least in LB2 if you hit a building or a tank it would making a big banging sound:doh: Can you fly through buildings too? Modded CapLoz HeliosV2.1_1280x1024.zip 2x 1080p 22"Monitors, Saitek X52, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, Trackir5, Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel Q9550 @3.8Ghz, EP45-UD3L, 8GB Ram, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB, 2x 500GB Velociraptor Flaming Cliffs 3 DCS:A10C,KA-50, Huey, Mi-8, WWII Euro 40+ Supporter, Mig21 Falcon 4 BMS IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 Take on Helicopters Arma 2 AO + PMC + BF All Addons Series Arma 3 EECH & EEAH Medivac & Search and Rescue 4 Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Glowing_Amraam Posted January 3, 2009 ED Team Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Are you serious? thats disappointing and laughable lol... at least in LB2 if you hit a building or a tank it would making a big banging sound:doh: Can you fly through buildings too? In Black Shark, if you hit a building, you'll be a wreck before you know it, same applies if you somehow manages to crash into a tank. And if you hit "SHIFT-J" while in the cockpit, the cockpit will start to "vibrate", which, imo, feels more realistic :) Edited January 3, 2009 by Glowing_Amraam https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgJRhtnqA-67pKmQ3A2GsgA ED youtube channel https://www.facebook.com/glowingamraam My facebook page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francous Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Since there is different settings with the scenery i can imagine how difficult this can be on a programmer point of view . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkr Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 question is will it be fixed? are the tree's Sprites? er 2 Flat semi-solid plain.? Modded CapLoz HeliosV2.1_1280x1024.zip 2x 1080p 22"Monitors, Saitek X52, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, Trackir5, Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel Q9550 @3.8Ghz, EP45-UD3L, 8GB Ram, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB, 2x 500GB Velociraptor Flaming Cliffs 3 DCS:A10C,KA-50, Huey, Mi-8, WWII Euro 40+ Supporter, Mig21 Falcon 4 BMS IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 Take on Helicopters Arma 2 AO + PMC + BF All Addons Series Arma 3 EECH & EEAH Medivac & Search and Rescue 4 Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 It won't be fixed, because it's not broken. It's a limitation of the engine and changing it would be more costly than waiting for a new terrain engine to be developed. So, a new terrain engine we await. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat778 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 question is will it be fixed? Unlikely in the near term. See this post: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=584265&postcount=67 Personally, I don't find collidable trees that much of a big deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkr Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Why shouldn't we be able to fly through water falls too then if were trying to be realistic:megalol: no offense I couldn't make one better, but thats a noticable boobee... Edited January 3, 2009 by thinkr Modded CapLoz HeliosV2.1_1280x1024.zip 2x 1080p 22"Monitors, Saitek X52, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, Trackir5, Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel Q9550 @3.8Ghz, EP45-UD3L, 8GB Ram, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB, 2x 500GB Velociraptor Flaming Cliffs 3 DCS:A10C,KA-50, Huey, Mi-8, WWII Euro 40+ Supporter, Mig21 Falcon 4 BMS IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 Take on Helicopters Arma 2 AO + PMC + BF All Addons Series Arma 3 EECH & EEAH Medivac & Search and Rescue 4 Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Why shouldn't we be able to fly through water falls too then if were trying to be realistic:megalol: Asking for solid trees is one thing; having a nasty attitude about it on the forum is another. The latter will result in a warning next time. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Just don't buy the game thinkr. At the moment you seem to be finding every excuse you can to belittle BS, despite never actually having played it. I just don't think you want to accept it's a better game, anyone who is a helicopter sim nut would crawl over broken glass to get this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkr Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) a nasty attitude Wow you guys sure could use a little humor. Try not sounding a little more desperate. It was refering to wombat778's post. Personally, I don't find collidable trees that much of a big deal... Your not getting browney points for being defensive about a video game their bound not to be 100% accurate. You can't tell me thats not funny since the makers keep pushing for realism, and than miss an important aspect like that. I'm sure they even said oops an giggled. I just don't think you want to accept it's a better game better game than what? you have no idea why I havn't bought it yet. "BROKEN GLASS" :megalol: Actually I'm waiting for Newegg to send the parts for my brand new system since this one can't handle BS, not that I have to explain myself to you. I'm amused you think I have nothing better to do than start a Vendeta about who's game is better...:doh: you could stand to calm down just a bit... were done...:music_whistling: PS. I think BS is Marvelous! kidding aside... to each his own opinion. Or are we not allowed to have an opinion on this forum? My respects to ED for their excellent effort. Edited January 3, 2009 by thinkr Modded CapLoz HeliosV2.1_1280x1024.zip 2x 1080p 22"Monitors, Saitek X52, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals, Trackir5, Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel Q9550 @3.8Ghz, EP45-UD3L, 8GB Ram, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB, 2x 500GB Velociraptor Flaming Cliffs 3 DCS:A10C,KA-50, Huey, Mi-8, WWII Euro 40+ Supporter, Mig21 Falcon 4 BMS IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 Take on Helicopters Arma 2 AO + PMC + BF All Addons Series Arma 3 EECH & EEAH Medivac & Search and Rescue 4 Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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