Playing DCS: World in VR Without Hand Controllers

[NateVA]

Hello,

I've been invested in DCS: World VR for a while now, and am thinking of upgrading from that nasty, no resistance VR throttle and stick to a real one. As I though it would be more realistic, fun, and easier to harness fine control of my aircraft. I'm wondering if it is possible to not use hand controllers as my hands will be using the physical throttle and stick. Like for example, looking at a switch and pressing a button on my stick.

Or is it necessary, and could I just program everything I need to a HOTAS. I know a lot of you are going to say just don't play VR, but I find it more enjoyable and realistic than using a monitor.

[Ahogephilia]

I recommend trackball.

accurate and easy than using hand-controller.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Trackball is great. I use also one of the small stick on the X-56 moving the mouse and 2 buttons as mouse buttons when in flight.

[dawgie79]

Cordless mouse. Used a trackball for a while but for my taste I wasn’t as handy with it as I am with a mouse. The latter is much more quicker for me.

[Dragon1-1]

I use a regular corded mouse. With how my flying space is set up, it works just fine.

[Topo]

A regular mouse is ok. Now i'm using pointctrl, and is great.

[draconus]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, NateVA said:

I know a lot of you are going to say just don't play VR...

What?! Why?! I wouldn't fly on monitor anymore. I never tried to use hand controllers as a HOTAS though.

I think most VR simmmers use HOTAS (with all the bindings you need) with mouse and maybe some easy to find keys.

There are some other options ex. trackball, keypad, custom panels, MFDs, VR controlers, leap motion, point track... but none are perfect, unless you build a home pit for a specific aircraft.

Edited July 9, 2022 by draconus

[despinoza]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:37 AM, NateVA said:

looking at a switch and pressing a button on my stick.
 

you can totally bind left and right mouse click to your hotas and use your head to select the switch. In my opinion it`s not great, especially with switches too far behind in the cockpit

[Mars Exulte]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:37 AM, NateVA said:

I'm wondering if it is possible to not use hand controllers as my hands will be using the physical throttle and stick. Like for example, looking at a switch and pressing a button on my stick.

    Not as far as I personally know, it'd require some additional peripherals for eye tracking or something, as trying to aim at a control with your head is going to be... imprecise.

On 7/7/2022 at 9:37 AM, NateVA said:

Or is it necessary, and could I just program everything I need to a HOTAS.

  With any of the semi-realistic HOTAS setups, you should be able to get 90% of the main stuff on there for sure. Just stick to primary controls like weapon essentials, Tpods, maybe gear and flaps, etc. Leave the tertiary stuff for hands and you'll be fine.

On 7/7/2022 at 9:37 AM, NateVA said:

I know a lot of you are going to say just don't play VR, but I find it more enjoyable and realistic than using a monitor.

  I doubt it. For ease of use, VR is inarguably superior, even if it's a crude crappy headset. Pancake is better for performance, visibility, and eye candy.

[Lace]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, NateVA said:

Hello,

I've been invested in DCS: World VR for a while now, and am thinking of upgrading from that nasty, no resistance VR throttle and stick to a real one. As I though it would be more realistic, fun, and easier to harness fine control of my aircraft. I'm wondering if it is possible to not use hand controllers as my hands will be using the physical throttle and stick. Like for example, looking at a switch and pressing a button on my stick.

Or is it necessary, and could I just program everything I need to a HOTAS. I know a lot of you are going to say just don't play VR, but I find it more enjoyable and realistic than using a monitor.

That is exactly how I play.  No additional mouse/trackball or VR controllers.  Just LMB/RMB/mouse scroll mapped to HOTAS buttons.  For any switch manipulation which is not natively on the HOTAS (gear, MFD buttons, etc.) simply look at them and click.  I feel a lot of people overcomplicate playing in VR.  This approach works brilliantly.

I'm sure you already know, but it is possible to double (or even more) the number of HOTAS buttons by using a modifier - this means that non-HOTAS, non-clickable functions can also be assigned to your HOTAS.  For example, with the Viper stick, the trim hat is the LMB/RMB/Scroll up/Scroll down mouse when unmodified, but when holding a modifier button on the throttle it is the trim hat.  'mod+CMS Push' toggles the kneeboard, 'mod+CMS Right' is next page, 'mod+CMS Left' is previous page, etc.  Views, NVG, Eject, Esc, VR Centre, can all be mapped to physical HOTAS buttons.  I've attached an example of one of my setups.

The point is, there is no reason ever to reach for the mouse or keyboard when flying in VR.  

[cfrag]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, NateVA said:

I'm wondering if it is possible to not use hand controllers as my hands will be using the physical throttle and stick

I'm only using HOTAS plus an attached Panel from Virpil

On 7/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, NateVA said:

Like for example, looking at a switch and pressing a button on my stick.

That's how I do it, and it makes flying soooooooo much better in a complex cockpit. Took 20 seconds to set up. Simply map two buttons to to mouse. Get a Virpil Constellation Alpha (or similar), and you also get a scroll wheel to turn the knobs that you are looking at.

 

On 7/7/2022 at 4:37 PM, NateVA said:

I know a lot of you are going to say just don't play VR

Only someone who never flew VR would say that. Once you play VR there is no way back. None.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

Once you play VR there is no way back. None.

Not true. Some users do go back or switch between VR/monitor at will. Reasons may be different: preference, performance, visuals, VR-sickness, etc.

[cfrag]

41 minutes ago, draconus said:

Not true.

Apologies for not explicitly marking hyperbole.

Edited July 13, 2022 by cfrag

[Eldur]

There's absolutely no problem with using a HOTAS and still using the hand controllers for the switches that aren't mapped to the HOTAS or keyboard. Not much difference to grabbing a mouse actually and it's 6DoF and you literally point at things you want to interact with while the mouse cursor is bound to your display and will move with even ever so slight head movements and often might be hidden somewhere outside of your HMD's FOV which makes it time consuming getting the cursor back into view and actually seeing where it is before you can just use it.

[draconus]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:40 PM, Eldur said:

There's absolutely no problem with using a HOTAS and still using the hand controllers for the switches that aren't mapped to the HOTAS or keyboard.

I've just given it a try in F-14 and it was very unpleasant overall.

1. If you put them aside the hands are visible all the time and usually in weird position.

2. They are white glowing at night.

3. Lasers break immersion.

4. Most switches are hard to move precisely or almost impossible. It's a fight with a cockpit, not using it. Some things work multiple times a second when trying to move - like autofire. Easiest are simple push buttons. Could not work with virtual HOTAS by hand controllers.

[Eldur]

#1 and #2 are things that have been reported and put up for fixing years ago, but kept untouched by ED so far. My #1 proposal (and I was neither the first nor the only one to suggest a change here) was just having them fade away after a few seconds of inactivity (similar to the WMR/G2 controllers keep "dying" after a minute and triggering Windows USB conn/disconn events, causing DCS to stutter hard - just without the inconvenience, please!), or even better, get onto the virtual HOTASes as part of the pilot body and at the same time actually casting shadows when visible, I'd also add now that they should just vanish if put outside of where it physically would be possible to put them (i.e. outside the cockpit or down into the consoles or dashboard). Would still be not 100% immersive (you only get that with BONEWORKS physics, but where store them when using your hardware HOTAS?) if they automagically just pop up and go away, but the method of control with the mouse ist just cumbersome and - this is my very own humble opinion - is rather unintuitive in VR as I'm fighting a lot more trying to just find the frickin' cursor and then, once found and placed, actually hit something with it thanks to natural head "instability" (with TIR in pancake, I could and actually had to pause the tracking/movement). I'm faster when trying to blindly press keybind combos with my HMD on.

#3 is only when you press the grip with the respective option set, otherwise your hands will literally trigger everything they touch - accidentally. I've suggested going an approach similar to VTOL VR in combination with the laser pointer thingy (both ways possible at the same time or as per options, just one of them if preffered) to get hold of that issue

#4 see above... might be just me though. Takes me ages with the mouse in VR and it's not enjoyable at all - but here's the thing: It's great to have both options, so everyone can try and see what works best for them

[battlegear2099]

Ignore all the uninformed naysayers and none vr people and negative nannies about not using VR.  If your playing just VR , Check out the leap motion hand tracking device!, see related posts on here or old video demo on youtube too see it in DCs. It's a full hand tracking camera some are using it like me and it's a blast for use in VR flying , ssd is requird+ extra ram is required, a good newer VR video card ,so gtx 3050+  if your using older latest gfx $1000+ card $$$$ is not required. So needed for the exta fps that is require over ontop of VR requirements, as there is fps drop. It works with any steam vr headset,  I use a oculus rift/quest 2 VR.  i use steam over openxr for that extra boost.  and a simple more affordable hotas setup, like a cheaper thrust master setup is all I use.  I recommend invest your into your PC mb/cpu/ video hardware instead, use your hands for all cockpit mpds and most switches that are reachable, accept axis stick and throttle. So all those exta expensive $$$$ hotas options are not needed in a vr cockpit , makes it difficult to use when you can't see them, and peaks threw visor are no answer or training your muscle memory or just a blind type keyboard ya right lol not for real vr.   mine is just a simple thrustmaster has all extra keys ever needed 15 with just the slide throttle alone for vr ,no other issues that I couldn't resolve with my brain , throttle is fine for flight/hover/land with skill learning<> control for the ah64 is possible so if it can do that it can handle any aircraft. I use the alt/shift/ctrl with hat 4 way or any joy button not in the VR cockpit and for any extra key maps needed. I popup VR kneeboard also use a mini keyboard just for vr ,kneeboard so strapped on my knee for VR seat control repositioning, moving the cockpit in vr around to deal with any minor distance issues and just training your self at looking at the zone to touch in VR cockpit resolved lots of hand tracking issues and so no zooming out and glancing in vr leap motion because it has narrow fov vision, there are minor loss of hand issues but I find that are DCs issues, fix in future updates and system under performance issues or not knowing leap motion recommend to do, you can also un plug it plug it back in game with out leaving DCs game or vr. the size difference between VR and actual real world pc size do cause tracking issues. That's expected with new hardware. So you need to remove all tracking obstacles, reflections, I also flip up my arm rests on my game chair for side panels clicking startup, lights, shutdown etc. Also I modify my physical rig for VR and hand tracking. And with that then you can build a cheap $20 mock cockpit front/side system out of foam for free hand touching.  I am also building a newer affordable PC not the latest hardware, just for using in VR and leap motion. I was using a real old DCs 2.5  2015/2018 and it still worked in minimal gfx but was way to slow for the device in VR in general VR 2.7 besides adding Leap motion  and stream deck . So DCs is not with out issue with leap motion, but I find all minor and benefits out way the issues. I have flown many times, 40 minutes to hours in sp on my server without a issue I couldn't resolve.   There are good hints how to setup and use the leap motion in dcs and recommends on the net and on DCs VR face book group here I post my stuff. Related Images attached.   My VR stuff is here on fb if you want to chat about leap motion. Cheers. https://m.facebook.com/phudson2099/posts/ms.c.eJxdzMsNgEAMA9GOUOx83X9jCHEg7PVpbBjKFF7ZiWDywitmU~_P6BDQOd2ONoE7xWjLqkiq~_n~_mRaLZF8BaWMIEYrh80S5arQWiQOKUm~;sL0fyOkDqH8Wd1v6DYL.bps./?photo_id=10160943657514252&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dms.c.eJxdzMsNgEAMA9GOUOx83X9jCHEg7PVpbBjKFF7ZiWDywitmU~_P6BDQOd2ONoE7xWjLqkiq~_n~_mRaLZF8BaWMIEYrh80S5arQWiQOKUm~%3BsL0fyOkDqH8Wd1v6DYL.bps.%26photo%3D10160943657514252%26profileid%3D530324251%26source%3D81%26ref%3Dm_notif%26notif_t%3Dgroup_comment_mention%26__tn__%3DE%26cached_data%3Dtrue%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

Edited July 17, 2022 by battlegear2099