KS-19 100mm gun

[Ian Boys UK]

The animations and modelling of the new KS-19 are superb! Top job!

Edited July 22, 2022 by Ian Boys UK

[draconus]

How many did you put in a mission to have such density? 20?

[Northstar98]

Yeah and definitely love the new SON-9 too. I was pleasantly surprised when it's animated for both search (though right now on one elevation) and track.

[Ian Boys UK]

5 hours ago, draconus said:

How many did you put in a mission to have such density? 20?

Just six

[twistking]

how much bigger (horizontially) is the range compared to the 57mm? is it roughly comparable to something like an sa-8 osa (only considering range)?

[Ian Boys UK]

54 minutes ago, twistking said:

how much bigger (horizontially) is the range compared to the 57mm? is it roughly comparable to something like an sa-8 osa (only considering range)?

Hard to answer because it depends on Alt. I'd say less than an Sa-8.

[RichardG]

The guns have only 7 rounds ready. It should be more. 

 

[twistking]

3 hours ago, RichardG said:

The guns have only 7 rounds ready. It should be more. 

 

i don't know, i think 7 rounds is a reasonable amount. you would have a cache (or truck in dcs) nearby to keep the gun fed. i don't have a strong opinion about this though...

Edited July 22, 2022 by twistking

[Dragon1-1]

IRL, there'd be an ammo truck or just a huge pile of shells on the ground (hopefully in a pit or revetment) somewhere near the gun. It makes sense to have around 7 shells "ready", as in, standing next to the gun ready to be loaded in. It's not like there's anywhere to put them in on the gun itself.

[RichardG]

Reload from truck in game takes a long time. So there's only 30 seconds barrage time then guns sit idle while everything flys overhead. Ammo count should be increased to simulate pile of ammo near gun. 

[Kang]

Have you tried putting in a truck yet? Reload time is depending on the unit in question, so it would be possible to have guns like this reload from a truck rather quickly.

[RichardG]

I hav. They don't quickly load.

[twistking]

1 hour ago, RichardG said:

I hav. They don't quickly load.

this seems to be the issue then: reload time being too high?! it's only an educated guess, but these guns should be able to fire more or less (!) continously when enough ammo is avaialble, shouldn't they?
so 7 shells on hand might be enough, but reloading after those 7 shells should be rather quick - if ammo is available...

[twistking]

what kind of RWR indication do you get from a ks-19 site on the receiving end?

also how does performance of the 57 / 57-2 medium AAA change, if you put a SON-9 into the group?

[draconus]

3 hours ago, twistking said:

what kind of RWR indication do you get from a ks-19 site on the receiving end?

SON-9 gives U in the Eagle, so RWR databases are probably not yet updated.

[Knock-Knock]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:48 PM, RichardG said:

Reload from truck in game takes a long time. So there's only 30 seconds barrage time then guns sit idle while everything flys overhead. Ammo count should be increased to simulate pile of ammo near gun. 

Thats not what Im seeing. I just had 4x KS-19 with a SON-9 and a ZIl-135 truck fire at a orbiting A-10 (immortal) for 15 min straight with about 1 shot every 4 seconds, followed by about 65 min reload time, and then they started firering again. 

[twistking]

7 hours ago, Knock-Knock said:

[...] 65 min reload time [...]

Typo? 65 seems a lot...

[Knock-Knock]

13 minutes ago, twistking said:

Typo? 65 seems a lot...

No, about 65 min. But that was after a constant uninterrupted 15 min barrage. So takes a lot of shooting before they are out of ammo.
What I didnt test though was, if they after say 2 min of shooting, would start rearming if they have a more than a 60 second pause, of if they only start rearming after they go empty.

[Northstar98]

We really need ammunition caches that can be configured with a certain number of rounds (possibly with volume and mass constraints), it should take less than a minute for one person to transfer a round from an ammunition stockpile to the gun.

[Raptor9]

Keep in mind that such high-caliber artillery isn't employed to provide the same density of flak as smaller calibers like 14.5mm, 23mm or even 57mm. These types of large-caliber AAA units would hold high-flying bombers at risk to disrupt their flight path to the target area. In the era that these systems were put into service, bombers were still performing carpet bombing at high altitudes with dumb bombs that required them to fly generally straight and level as they approached the target area, which would allow either the optical sights or the radar nav/bombardier to provide a good solution for when to release the bomb load. Couple the guns with a fire control radar that can direct their salvos at high altitude against a large, non-maneuvering bomber formation, and the only question that remains is how many guns do you need to cover the target you're defending, based on the number of expected enemy bombers to be over the target area within a given time span.

While I do think 65 minutes to reload seems excessive, and I also agree that air defense units would probably stockpile additional rounds nearby for large strategic targets that aren't going anywhere, these guns aren't going to be the primary defense. Nor would they likely be employed against small maneuvering fighters if smaller caliber AAA emplacements were available that could provide faster rates of fire along with quicker traverse rates. I'm not speaking for the devs, just speaking on the topic of employment and tactics.

[twistking]

27 minutes ago, Knock-Knock said:

No, about 65 min. But that was after a constant uninterrupted 15 min barrage. So takes a lot of shooting before they are out of ammo.
What I didnt test though was, if they after say 2 min of shooting, would start rearming if they have a more than a 60 second pause, of if they only start rearming after they go empty.

i see! the 65 minutes will also include a well-deserved lunch-break for the crew then...

21 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

We really need ammunition caches that can be configured with a certain number of rounds (possibly with volume and mass constraints), it should take less than a minute for one person to transfer a round from an ammunition stockpile to the gun.

good idea. i think one runs the danger of beginning to over-engeneer simulation features, but having an ammo-cache object that holds a limited amount of ammo but otherwise acts like an ammo truck, would be reasonable i think. maybe also add the possibility to limit total ammo on trucks and we'd be having a more realsitic environment without too much added complexity in setting it up...

*edit* to clarify over-engeneering: while it would -  for example - be neat (on first thought) to have ammo trucks carry certain specified ammo only, this would make mission editing extremely tedious and wouldn't offer that much more gameplay fidelity, if you think it through. ammo caches that can be resupplied automatically from trucks and generally finite amounts of ammo from all sources on the other hands would be very reasonable i think...

Edited July 27, 2022 by twistking

[Northstar98]

8 minutes ago, twistking said:

good idea. i think one runs teh danger of beginnign to over-engeneer here, but having an ammo-cache object that holds a limited amount of ammo but otherwise acts like an ammo truck, would be reasonable i think. maybe also add the possibility to limit total ammo on trucks...

The thing with having them be limited, is that it opens up the doors for more high-fidelity logistics.

Right now you've got 2 choices: have no reloads available or have an infinite number of reloads available.

Coupled with the fact that slingloading doesn't really have any practical purpose in DCS, apart from just picking something up and putting it down again - something like this, would change that.

For example, I could set up a recurring mission where I have to transport rounds from an ammunition depot, to a more remote artillery battery as said battery requests ammunition. There is the potential for actual consequences should the transport helicopter be shot down or otherwise not reach the battery.

I've been meaning to do a monster thread about improving logistics generally, as there's so much room to grow and there's some major gameplay opportunities here as far as transportantion and interdiction missions go, especially when coupled with a dynamic, persistent campaign.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Northstar98

[twistking]

22 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

The thing with having them be limited, is that it opens up the doors for more high-fidelity logistics.

Right now you've got 2 choices: have no reloads available or have an infinite number of reloads available.

Coupled with the fact that slingloading doesn't really have any practical purpose in DCS, apart from just picking something up and putting it down again - something like this, would change that.

For example, I could set up a recurring mission where I have to transport rounds from an ammunition depot, to a more remote artillery battery as said battery requests ammunition. There is the potential for actual consequences should the transport helicopter be shot down or otherwise not reach the battery.

I've been meaning to do a monster thread about improving logistics generally, as there's so much room to grow and there's some major gameplay opportunities here as far as transportantion and interdiction missions go, especially when coupled with a dynamic, persistent campaign.

 

Good point and i agree. Good news is, that something like this is possibly in the plans, because it seems rather important for the upcoming dynamic campaign components...
The point i wanted to make is that there can be a certain beauty in abstraction of some mechanics, because it can make the simulation more observable for the player and make the player's impact more noticeable.
I would even think that it could be good to have different types of ammo, but then it would be needed to have those visually represented. For example SAMs would be transported per piece and small arms ammo would be in a certain recognisable type of crate etc.
But even with the current objects, it would be good to have finite ammo in trucks/crates and seperation between ammo and fuel (if this is not the case already). But this is getting off-topic, so go ahead and make your monster thread!

Edited July 27, 2022 by twistking